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View Full Version : Are the current San Francisco Giants the worst dynasty team of all time in any sport?



KingsFan1985
October 15th, 2014, 10:30 PM
Me and my Yankees friend had a long conversation about this today, and we both came to the conclusion that this current San Francisco Giants are probably the worst set of teams to win multiple championships in any sport ever. I'll chime in with some of the points we came up with, but first I want to hear what you guys think about this. Agree or disagree?


By the way I'm not proclaiming that the Giants will win the World Series this year. We are going off the fact they have even made this far with the roster they have, and the way they played for a large chunk of the season. Also taking into consideration how their rosters have stacked up to other dynasty teams.

Len-Det64
October 16th, 2014, 01:53 AM
I don't watch baseball but my brother-in-law has been a Giants fan for years. According to him there are times during the season when the Giants play and win like the best team in baseball but then they go on these colossal losing streaks or periods where they play far less than .500. It almost sounds like a similar team in hockey that we all know and love. It's not always about the best team during the season it's about getting to the playoffs and playing your best hockey...er baseball.

TMAC
October 16th, 2014, 08:23 AM
I don't watch baseball but my brother-in-law has been a Giants fan for years. According to him there are times during the season when the Giants play and win like the best team in baseball but then they go on these colossal losing streaks or periods where they play far less than .500. It almost sounds like a similar team in hockey that we all know and love. It's not always about the best team during the season it's about getting to the playoffs and playing your best hockey...er baseball.

Well Im a Giants fan and I can tell you that your post was pretty much what I was going to say. Spot on!!! They barely made the playoffs this year and are now running just like KC did. Fun time in baseball for sure.

King Jeffrey
October 16th, 2014, 09:23 AM
I don't watch baseball but my brother-in-law has been a Giants fan for years. According to him there are times during the season when the Giants play and win like the best team in baseball but then they go on these colossal losing streaks or periods where they play far less than .500. It almost sounds like a similar team in hockey that we all know and love. It's not always about the best team during the season it's about getting to the playoffs and playing your best hockey...er baseball.

Great comparison. I was thinking the same thing.

Still pissed about Clayton Chokeshaw, smh...

Rogie-Vachon
October 16th, 2014, 09:48 AM
When you score winning runs on throwing errors, pass balls, and bunts...you're one lucky ''A'' team.

Len-Det64
October 17th, 2014, 03:16 AM
One of the other things my brother-in-law has pointed out to me about the Giants is that their manager, Bruce Bochy, may be one of the best if not the best in baseball now. Knowing when to change your pitcher and which pitcher to put in as well as when to substitute players in and out of the lineup (pinch hitting, running and positional changes) makes a huge difference in baseball.

redxalonso
October 17th, 2014, 08:46 AM
The players are clutch in the playoffs. After two rings, the vets are no different that those of the Kings in the playoffs. It didn't hurt to have Tim Lincecum as a relief pitcher in 2012, either.

Bochy is the best manager in the game

Giants GM Brian Sabea also deserve a lot of credit for the organizational depth they have. He signed or traded for players that fit the team (angel pagan, scutaro, Pat Burrel, Aubrey Huff, Jake Peavy, etc....and Ishikawa) and the farm system produces the talent (Suso, Panik) to make impacts this season.

KingsFan1985
October 17th, 2014, 12:13 PM
It should be noted that I'm pretty much the only person (outside of Giants fans) ackowledging that this team has earned the title of a dynasty team. That should be the first clue about what the level of respect many basebabll people have towards the Giants in the baseball world. Very valid points about Boucy and Sabea, as they are the best in the game.

Part of the problem I think comes with the notion that Giants do seem to get more luck than most teams usually get in the playoffs. This playoff run is a perfect example. First the Pirates throw a awful pitcher in elimination game instead of their ace against the Giants, then the Giants play a notoriously bad choking team in the Nationals, then finally the Giants play a Cardinals team which mentally threw up the white flag when Yadier Molina got hurt (it for sure was not the same Cardinals team that played the Dodgers). Also take into account that if we were using the playoff format from 2010, this current squad wouldn't have even qualified for the playoffs.

Note that this is just this year's Giants team. I have read past articles dismissing the other two championships, which in hindsight were won with a vastly superior teams (especially 2010). If I can find them the articles I'll post them, but from what I remember the general argument was that the Giants have never really been sabermetric darlings, and from traditional scouting perspective it makes no logical sense that they keep winning championships while riding the backs of a lot players who were considered to be washed up.

Taking a step back though for a second and simply looking at this from the casual observer perspective. My friend is a Yankees fans (has no strong feelings one way or another about the Giants), but he personally feels all three Giants World Series runs have been fluke runs. Trust me he's far from being the only non Dodgers fan to have made that claim about the Giants. I for one don't fully agree with that notion, especially when talking about 2010 when the Giants were without a doubt the best pitching and defensive team in baseball. It's that other two runs that it gets dicey for me.

redxalonso
October 17th, 2014, 06:15 PM
3 world series in 4 years. 2 rings. they dynasty, baby

mrm55
October 18th, 2014, 08:09 AM
eff their dynasty. I have KC to win the WS @50:1. Already cashed ALCS @25:1.

Stormy2213
October 30th, 2014, 08:17 AM
Sounds like sour grapes to me. You win 3 out of 5 WS titles and you're a good team, period.

redxalonso
October 30th, 2014, 07:14 PM
Great scouting, homegrown core players, and acquiring character players via trade of free agent, great coaching

Sound familiar?

KingsFan1985
October 30th, 2014, 10:29 PM
Sounds like sour grapes to me. You win 3 out of 5 WS titles and you're a good team, period.

Who said they were a bad team? The question is are they the worst dynasty team of all time. Dynasty teams tend to be pretty good.



Great scouting, homegrown core players, and acquiring character players via trade of free agent, great coaching

Sound familiar?

Agree with that. One difference between the Kings and Giants though is that the Kings tend to be advanced stats darlings, while the Giants are not even the best sabermeteric team within a 20 mile radius of their own ballpark. Yes the Giants have their core players (I wouldn't say as many as the Kings), but a large part of their three championships have come off the backs of washed up or journey men players they picked up before the trade deadline. And before you people bring up Penner and Gabo the ratio of these types of players on the Kings compared to the Giants is nowhere near as close to one another. Giants seem to defy not only the sabermetric community, but also the traditional baseball community.

USCKingsFan31
October 30th, 2014, 11:16 PM
"If you're gonna compare a Hanzo sword, you compare it to every other sword ever made... that wasn't made by Hattori Hanzo."

If you're gonna compare a dynasty, you compare it to every other team that isn't one.

KingsFan1985
October 31st, 2014, 12:45 AM
"If you're gonna compare a Hanzo sword, you compare it to every other sword ever made... that wasn't made by Hattori Hanzo."

If you're gonna compare a dynasty, you compare it to every other team that isn't one.

How about this one!

The Willie Mays era SF Giants that produced multiple hall of famers but won no champions vs. the current dynasty SF Giants that won two of their three championships relying heavily on players like Juan Uribe, Marco Scutaro, and Cody Ross.

redxalonso
October 31st, 2014, 08:10 AM
Who said they were a bad team? The question is are they the worst dynasty team of all time. Dynasty teams tend to be pretty good.




Agree with that. One difference between the Kings and Giants though is that the Kings tend to be advanced stats darlings, while the Giants are not even the best sabermeteric team within a 20 mile radius of their own ballpark. Yes the Giants have their core players (I wouldn't say as many as the Kings), but a large part of their three championships have come off the backs of washed up or journey men players they picked up before the trade deadline. And before you people bring up Penner and Gabo the ratio of these types of players on the Kings compared to the Giants is nowhere near as close to one another. Giants seem to defy not only the sabermetric community, but also the traditional baseball community.

What about the pitching and defense, the two most important factors in winning WS titles.

2010 Giants pitching were sick. in the PO's, Cain, Lincecum and Bum went 6-1 sub 2.0 era, and Brian Wilson shut the door in RS and PO. With all due respect to Ross, Huff, and Burrell, the Giants wouldn't have won without the pitching and a decent enough defense.

2012. While the pitching staff regressed, the defense got even better, and the bats woke up in the POs. Crawford, Scutaro and Pagan up the middle. Panda and Belt in the corners. Pence and whomever in left and right. Buster wins NL MVP, Kung Fu Panda awakens in the playoffs, especially against Verlander. Pagan and Scutaro were also huge in the PO, and I wouldn't consider them washed up. Lincecum had already lost his mojo but still shut it down as a middle reliever. Romo became Giants closer and shut the door. IMO, in terms of balanced contribution, this was the Giant's best title winning team and only two players, Vogelsong and Zito, were washed up.

2014. Cain and Scutaro goes down, Giants get Peavy and calls up Panik, Susac, and Duffy. Of the three, Panik made a name for himself, if not in the RS, the definitely in the playoffs. Those rookie call ups show serious organizational depth. Of the bullpen core four, 3 of whom were home grown and were lights out. Hunter Pence, who is not a journeyman nor is he washed up, was great in the POs. Kung Fu Panda 2. Peavy and Hudson get rocked but Madison Bumgarner saves the day. The rotation isn't even good without Bumgarner but the defense is still one of the best in the majors, especially the infield with Panik.

That's a lot of contributions from many of the Giants homegrown players.

KingsFan1985
November 7th, 2014, 09:50 PM
What about the pitching and defense, the two most important factors in winning WS titles.

2010 Giants pitching were sick. in the PO's, Cain, Lincecum and Bum went 6-1 sub 2.0 era, and Brian Wilson shut the door in RS and PO. With all due respect to Ross, Huff, and Burrell, the Giants wouldn't have won without the pitching and a decent enough defense.

2012. While the pitching staff regressed, the defense got even better, and the bats woke up in the POs. Crawford, Scutaro and Pagan up the middle. Panda and Belt in the corners. Pence and whomever in left and right. Buster wins NL MVP, Kung Fu Panda awakens in the playoffs, especially against Verlander. Pagan and Scutaro were also huge in the PO, and I wouldn't consider them washed up. Lincecum had already lost his mojo but still shut it down as a middle reliever. Romo became Giants closer and shut the door. IMO, in terms of balanced contribution, this was the Giant's best title winning team and only two players, Vogelsong and Zito, were washed up.

2014. Cain and Scutaro goes down, Giants get Peavy and calls up Panik, Susac, and Duffy. Of the three, Panik made a name for himself, if not in the RS, the definitely in the playoffs. Those rookie call ups show serious organizational depth. Of the bullpen core four, 3 of whom were home grown and were lights out. Hunter Pence, who is not a journeyman nor is he washed up, was great in the POs. Kung Fu Panda 2. Peavy and Hudson get rocked but Madison Bumgarner saves the day. The rotation isn't even good without Bumgarner but the defense is still one of the best in the majors, especially the infield with Panik.

That's a lot of contributions from many of the Giants homegrown players.

Well I think this going to go around in circles. Like I said I agree about the pitching and defense back in 2010, not going to hear my complain against that. I do feel you are kind of underplaying the importance non core Giants players had to contributing to the 3 championships.

I'll just leave it on this note, and I think putting it in this context might help me make my point. While it feels great to have 3 championships no matter how you get it, at the same time though doesn't it feel a little unjust that those Willie Mays teams of the 1960's got no rings simply because of the playoff system that existed back them, but this team got one thanks in large part to a watered down playoff system where almost half the league gets in now?