The Veteran Cop-Out

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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

if you're Scott Thornton and you're signing a retirement contract or if you're Giuliano and you're borderline NHL player AT BEST then you have to consider other things other than just "getting NHL ice time".

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Other than the Kings, where precisely were Thornton or Giuliano going to play at the NHL level or get a contract ... especially the latter. There are multiple players who ONLY have NHL deals for sticking up for others - enforcer types and third/fourth line energy guys. If they don't stick up for their teammates, then they aren't in the NHL.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

Lombardi can say he didn't expect any of those players to accomplish a great deal all he wants... the fact remains that they took up roster spots and played vital minutes on a team that was supposedly "rebuilding" with youth. So that's two seasons worth of NHL experience for younger players or veterans that wouldn't have been considered "builders" or "bridges", or whatever ....

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Maybe I am missing something. My take on Lombardi's organizational plan means by definition he signed gap players to allow the younger players to develop at their own pace. Year three had to be the first year where some might be ready. With Purcell, Boyle and Moulson expected to make the team leads me to think that DL is executing his plan as promised.

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Originally Posted by Carla Muller

Other than the Kings, where precisely were Thornton or Giuliano going to play at the NHL level or get a contract ... especially the latter. There are multiple players who ONLY have NHL deals for sticking up for others - enforcer types and third/fourth line energy guys. If they don't stick up for their teammates, then they aren't in the NHL. .

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Heh. That's my point. Thornton wasn't going to play anywhere else so he had the rest of his life and his health to consider. Giuliano is way too small to "stick up" for anybody. His role in the NHL is going to be limited to exactly what he did with the Kings. Skate hard and do what he's told. But if you're Brown or Kopitar why are you going to risk hurting yourself to fight or hit for a player that could be gone tomorrow? If you're Scott Thornton and retirement is looming why would you risk discomfort for the rest of your life?

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Originally Posted by Carla Muller

Maybe I am missing something. My take on Lombardi's organizational plan means by definition he signed gap players to allow the younger players to develop at their own pace. Year three had to be the first year where some might be ready. With Purcell, Boyle and Moulson expected to make the team leads me to think that DL is executing his plan as promised.

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Well that all assumes that players like O'Sullivan and Johnson blossom into legitimate NHL talent. As much as I like both players Belanger, Gleason, Demitra and others that have been jettisoned by Lombardi could have filled those roles just as well while giving Kings fans some kind of continuity.

Now... maybe the Kings don't do as poorly and their draft picks aren't as good... but I don't think Lombardi truly expected to finish where they did... and I don't buy the "in the locker room" argument for every single player that was let go. In fact I don't believe it for any of them until I see some kind of concrete evidence beyond just the speculation of a hand full of fans on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

Thornton wasn't going to play anywhere else so he had the rest of his life and his health to consider.

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I have a hard time buying that was ever part of the equation for Thornton. Two years of NHL salary and continuing his career anywhere in the league is more like it.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

Well that all assumes that players like O'Sullivan and Johnson blossom into legitimate NHL talent. As much as I like both players Belanger, Gleason, Demitra and others that have been jettisoned by Lombardi could have filled those roles just as well while giving Kings fans some kind of continuity.

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I don't miss Belanger, Gleason or Demitra. What they brought is far more easily replaced than the potential and projected talent level of Johnson and O'Sullivan. I haven't seen anyone question that potential to date. As for not fighting for veterans on their last legs by Brown or Kopitar, well, they are not being paid to fill that role. The Kings would be more upset if they did.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

I don't buy the "in the locker room" argument for every single player that was let go.

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I don't know the 'locker room' argument you are mentioning unless you are alluding to Lombardi's statement about the lack of veterans acting like professionals.

f***, i'm not NEARLY high enough to get into this....

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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

I'll give Lombardi a pass on season one. AEG however gets no such pass. As for this past off season... say what you will about spots needing to be filled... Lombardi signed a complete 2nd/3rd line worth of forwards and two veteran defencemen to add to Modry, Blake and Visnovsky.

That's not going with youth. That's hedging your bets. Lombardi can say he didn't expect any of those players to accomplish a great deal all he wants... the fact remains that they took up roster spots and played vital minutes on a team that was supposedly "rebuilding" with youth. So that's two seasons worth of NHL experience for younger players or veterans that wouldn't have been considered "builders" or "bridges", or whatever spreadsheet term he wants to use, that have been effectively flushed down the tubes. On top of that there's any potential good will lost by having Blake and Crawford and Cloutier around for their respective dilemmas.

Lombardi, perhaps (as he claims) at the behest of AEG, has NOT followed through with his own plan and now, in year three, we may finally see it begin....

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i think you have to be careful here. if you dont sign preissing, stuart, and to a lesser extend handzus and nagy who do you replace them with? on the back end the kings had virtually no defensive prospects with any upside. really all we had was an off-the-board draft pick who would clearly need a few years before being considered for the nhl. on the offensive side, would you really have started the season with purcell, boyle and moulson? for what purpose to play fourth line minutes? maybe they would have developed at the same pace with those types of minutes and ended up on the second line, but i doubt it. its no secret that dl has made some suspect decisions. but he didnt have much choice. he has signed some players for way too much money, but with the exception of handzus and preissing he signed them on short term deals. i think if he were truly guilty of what you are accusing him of doing he would have signed drury for 5-8 years. then this whole o'sullivan deal would really be scary.

The more I read here, the more I get depressed. I get the idea that no good NHL players want to come to Los Angeles and now it is getting worse. AEG, Lombardi's plans, etc...just more heartbreak for loyal fans...

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Originally Posted by sjsoldo

The more I read here, the more I get depressed. I get the idea that no good NHL players want to come to Los Angeles and now it is getting worse. AEG, Lombardi's plans, etc...just more heartbreak for loyal fans...

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You should be here when the team manages to actually win a game. You'd swear the Stanley Cup was just around the corner.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

You should be here when the team manages to actually win a game. You'd swear the Stanley Cup was just around the corner.

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isnt it??

Carla, good article and you make some great points...however (you just knew there was going to be a "however" right?) I don't think Modry shuld be lumped into the "cop-out" section. The guy DID play his ass off and was our BEST defender all of last season. By all accounts he was very happy to be back here when he signed that contract. Keep in mind he came back to a team who's fans...well, a majority of which...hated him. He NEVER complained, worked hiss ass off (even through everything going on with his father), was the one that REALLY mentored JMFJ in a proper way (remember, they were the best d-line out there), and was actually winning over some of the haters. He got thanked by getting traded to Philly. Yeah, he got a chance at the playoffs, but would YOU want to go through that all over again?

I don't blame him, and I don't think it's a cop out. He came in, did WAY better than ANYONE expected (except for a few of us on here that thought it was a great # 5/6 D signing), and in the end, still got little or no respect. I wish the dude all of the best and don't blame him for not wanting to do a third stretch here.

Having said that, you are right about most players copping out. I just think that there ARE some exceptions. Keep up the good work.

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Originally Posted by boy1der

I don't think Modry shuld be lumped into the "cop-out" section. The guy DID play his ass off and was our BEST defender all of last season.

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I absolutely agree with this take. I quoted Modry because of the quote he used on his way to Czechoslovakia. Despite the fact he did exactly what you said, he left thinking he only filled a 'hole' here, he did a lot more than that. If his perception matched what he did, perhaps he would have felt differently about his last tenure here.

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Originally Posted by boy1der

He came in, did WAY better than ANYONE expected (except for a few of us on here that thought it was a great # 5/6 D signing), and in the end, still got little or no respect.

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Modry's expectations may be what gave him the perceptions he had. JMFJ gave him full props and credit. He missed Modry for all intents and purposes as much as Blake. It wouldn't surprise me if he could have come back here for minor dollars. I actually think he had no need to prove his game here for the people who counted. Perhaps, he was looking for more kudos then his age would allow in any organization.

As a side note, I have never been big on sour grapes. Perhaps I am off in never never land (expecting major flack for putting this out here) but any veteran who comes here, plays crazy good with mad effort is getting ice time and opportunities. What organization wouldn't reward that?