Thread: Amy Winehouse-We Hardly Knew Ye

Originally Posted by Blueline

I don't buy the "it is a disease" line as well. What it seems like is a lack of common sense (common sense and intelligence are clearly not the same thing) because she was well informed of her issues and the outcome but refused to change what she did. That is a lack of common sense, not a disease.

Yes, it appears to be harder for some to quit thier destructive behavior than it is for others, but that doesn't make it a disease. People with diseases don't have the options to get better that she had (just stop partying), so is it fair to them to label her in the same way?

But there are a lot of self inflicted "diseases" out there that are 100% preventable by living a relatively healthy lifestyle. And disease is interchangeable w/ clinical diagnosis so....

- heart disease
- some cancers
- cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
- some lung diseases (emphysema)
- obesity (clinical diagnosis)

All of these are considered lifestyle diseases by the general public and the medical community. And they are all, on some level, completely, 100% preventable. So should they not be considered diseases b/c there is a conscious choice not being made to stop making poor decisions?

Just some food for thought.

Originally Posted by Dave

You dress is a collectors item now.

ya i wondered about that. it's not being sold on the site anymore. didn't seem like that long ago that i bought it.

Originally Posted by ydkjs2

I have just finished watching some videos of her early stuff from BBC3. She really was quite good back then. The kind of singer I enjoy listening to a 'bluesy, smokey' kind of voice with a really good range. If 'we' could back away and not get obsessed with drug addiction, politics, etc., maybe someone could post some of those early videos. I don't know how, I am technologically handicapped, or I would.

the fun starts after the 30s mark. i quite enjoy this cover:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HLY1NTe04M"]‪Valerie‬‏ - YouTube[/nomedia]

Originally Posted by KRC1221

But there are a lot of self inflicted "diseases" out there that are 100% preventable by living a relatively healthy lifestyle. And disease is interchangeable w/ clinical diagnosis so....

- heart disease
- some cancers
- cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
- some lung diseases (emphysema)
- obesity (clinical diagnosis)

All of these are considered lifestyle diseases by the general public and the medical community. And they are all, on some level, completely, 100% preventable. So should they not be considered diseases b/c there is a conscious choice not being made to stop making poor decisions?

Just some food for thought.

I would certainly say that "some" of those should not in fact be called diseases. Obesity is a choice, you chose to eat that much, once there it may not be so easy to go back, but it was a choice made by the individual.

I myself smoke and it is certainly an addiction, but is it a disease? Not to me, it was my choice to start and mine to quit or not.

Heart Disease can be heriditary, so if that was the case, I would call it a disease as the recipient didn't really have a choice in the matter.

I simply think that the term "disease" is thrown around way too much lately and is a cop out most of the time. 95% of the time that kid causing a rukus in public is because he's a lil brat and the parents suck, not because he has a disease (ADHD).

I'm not saying that addiction is easy or even not tragic, but to lay it off as a disease and therefore not thier fault (which is the underlying issue with me) does an injustice to those that are afflicted with life threatening diseases and can't simply quit something to get better.

Originally Posted by Jaygokings!

So okay, I have an addictive personality, it's a disease.

I choose to do Cocaine and i therefore become dependent

is that the diseases fault? or my fault?

The things you are describing are symptoms of an altogether different ailment.

Self-medication, whether it be heroin, jogging, ice cream, hoarding, its all the same. There are numerous factors that frame and define the self-medicating "drug" of choice - some socially acceptable, some not, but the underlying reasoning is still the same.

You have a hole, you subconciously, and sometimes conciously as well, feel an uncontrollable need to fill it. Your social circumstances, desires, interests, upbringing - all kinds of things - help determine the method you choose to try and control your own healing process.

And thats not even discussing those who are aware of the need and cruelly deny themselves help because of self-destructive tendancies that are very much the same method of control. It's the opposite end of the spectrum - denying yourself the help you know you need is very much the same as going out of your way to seek treatment - it's about self ownership and control, for good or bad.

It really is interesting that you can read so many strongly argued, but naive viewpoints on subjects like these. Unless it is something that enters your life in one manner or another, its unlikely that you will have the reason to go beyond face value knowledge. But why be so dead certain about it and chose to argue with those who have more in depth and personally experienced first hand understanding?

Not all opinions are worth the same.

This thread alone shows why it is so difficult for people with this issue to seek and find proper treatment - the social stigma of mental disease and its manifistation in "illegal" drugs are so blatantly and widely misunderstood that it makes the subject a taboo. It's so difficult to change the public outlook because the immediate drug angle is cause enough to reduce the significance of the disease. It's allowed to obscure the real issue, and the mentality of those not familiar with root cause frankly don't care enough to go beyond their initial naive reaction.

Originally Posted by KRC1221

No offense taken. I know you're not calling me out. And lets throw weed out of the equation b/c that doesn't even count. I've smoked everyday for years and just stopped b/c I felt that I was smoking too much. I'd take a few months off and then if I wanted to I'd start again. I didn't have any withdrawls.

People who claim they get significant withdrawal symptoms from weed are weak and full of ****. I actually feel better when I take time off.

Like you said this is just something that we disagree on and that is cool. But let me throw this your way. I think that we both would agree that addiction and diabetes are for the most part preventable and self inflicted "ailments" (I use that word b/c you don't like disease for addiction, trying to be fair). So.....would calling diabetes a bonafide disease be a disservice to the word "disease" b/c its self inflicted and completely preventable by living a healthy lifestyle?

You know there are different types of diabetes right? Type 1 I absolutely have sympathy for. Type 2 (The one you must be talking about), not so much.

Whatever your stance on it is disease, ailment etc....its a tragic, tragic thing that no deserves. The sad truth is that I will probably lose my oldest brother to this. And that is ****ing devastating thing to try and come to grips with.

I hope this isn't too personal a question so feel free to disregard this, but if your brother succumbs to his addiction and passes, would at least a small part of you resent him for this? Think about it... Would you feel the same about someone dying of a condition that they actively played no part in acquiring?

Originally Posted by Mondo Blando

The things you are describing are symptoms of an altogether different ailment.

Self-medication, whether it be heroin, jogging, ice cream, hoarding, its all the same. There are numerous factors that frame and define the self-medicating "drug" of choice - some socially acceptable, some not, but the underlying reasoning is still the same.

You have a hole, you subconciously, and sometimes conciously as well, feel an uncontrollable need to fill it. Your social circumstances, desires, interests, upbringing - all kinds of things - help determine the method you choose to try and control your own healing process.

And thats not even discussing those who are aware of the need and cruelly deny themselves help because of self-destructive tendancies that are very much the same method of control. It's the opposite end of the spectrum - denying yourself the help you know you need is very much the same as going out of your way to seek treatment - it's about self ownership and control, for good or bad.

It really is interesting that you can read so many strongly argued, but naive viewpoints on subjects like these. Unless it is something that enters your life in one manner or another, its unlikely that you will have the reason to go beyond face value knowledge. But why be so dead certain about it and chose to argue with those who have more in depth and personally experienced first hand understanding?

Not all opinions are worth the same.

This thread alone shows why it is so difficult for people with this issue to seek and find proper treatment - the social stigma of mental disease and its manifistation in "illegal" drugs are so blatantly and widely misunderstood that it makes the subject a taboo. It's so difficult to change the public outlook because the immediate drug angle is cause enough to reduce the significance of the disease. It's allowed to obscure the real issue, and the mentality of those not familiar with root cause frankly don't care enough to go beyond their initial naive reaction.

Yes, there are healthy ways and unhealthy ways to deal with the same issues. Why should those who deal in unhealthy ways deserve the same label (or respect) as those who's lives are destroyed by something completely random and out of their control?

Originally Posted by Byatch1979

People who claim they get significant withdrawal symptoms from weed are weak and full of ****. I actually feel better when I take time off.


You know there are different types of diabetes right? Type 1 I absolutely have sympathy for. Type 2 (The one you must be talking about), not so much.



I hope this isn't too personal a question so feel free to disregard this, but if your brother succumbs to his addiction and passes, would at least a small part of you resent him for this? Think about it... Would you feel the same about someone dying of a condition that they actively played no part in acquiring?

Yes I realize there are two types of diabetes. Obviously I'm talking about Type 2.

As far as your question. Its not too personal but thank you for your tact in asking it. I do appreciate it. I won't resent him for it. I know how hard he has tried. And the evil **** that he is using is just so damn powerful. I just deal w/ it differently than others. My mom and I kind of deal w/ it similarly. My dad and brother deal w/ it differently. In a perfect world we'd probably meet somewhere in the middle.

Resentment is a tough word for me to use. I'm frustrated that he can't beat this. He knows the pain and damage that he has caused the family and that must be incredibly hard to deal w/. I feel horribly for his kids who have dealt w/ this all their lives. When he is clean, he is a great father, husband, son and brother. But something just switches in him and that makes him say "**** it." I truly believe that when that switch is hit that says I'm going to get loaded he is partially high already. The blood, adrenaline are flowing and nothing will stop him.

Thats the part that non addicts have a hard time understanding. Just pick up the phone and call a loved one, think of what you'll lose, look at a picture of your kids.....thats what people say they should do when the temptation hits. If it was only that easy. I wish it was. Non addicts can't begin to understand the addicted mind.

Originally Posted by KRC1221

But there are a lot of self inflicted "diseases" out there that are 100% preventable by living a relatively healthy lifestyle. And disease is interchangeable w/ clinical diagnosis so....

- heart disease
- some cancers
- cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
- some lung diseases (emphysema)
- obesity (clinical diagnosis)

All of these are considered lifestyle diseases by the general public and the medical community. And they are all, on some level, completely, 100% preventable. So should they not be considered diseases b/c there is a conscious choice not being made to stop making poor decisions?

Just some food for thought.

and to be fair, I don't have sympathy for any of those either. As you said, they can all be handled/prevented/lessened by intelligent lifestyles and good decisions.

I am not arguing wether or not addiction is a disease. IT VERY MUCH IS A DISEASE. HOWEVER, you can help yourself 100% by making correct, informed, and intelligent decisions.

... which brings it back to my original perfect humans comment.