Thread: The Dark Knight Rises -- spoiler discussion

JD, I'll admit that I'm an apologist if you admit you're a hater.

And for what it's worth, I agree that Modine and the special ops guy were both unnecessary but I don't know why you always feel that Nolan is in love with himself. And I still think that what he showed of Bane was enough. I would have liked to have seen more, but there weren't any important questions about him when the movie ended. We also don't see the Scarecrow making his mask or how Catwoman got that outfit. In fact, the Catwoman part would be what I would point to if we're talking where someone got something from. But then, you would assume she stole it from somewhere.

Originally Posted by NastiMarvasti

JD, I'll admit that I'm an apologist if you admit you're a hater.

And for what it's worth, I agree that Modine and the special ops guy were both unnecessary but I don't know why you always feel that Nolan is in love with himself. And I still think that what he showed of Bane was enough. I would have liked to have seen more, but there weren't any important questions about him when the movie ended. We also don't see the Scarecrow making his mask or how Catwoman got that outfit. In fact, the Catwoman part would be what I would point to if we're talking where someone got something from. But then, you would assume she stole it from somewhere.

Not a hater...as such. Like I said, enjoyed the movie when I was watching it. But really? You don't need to know the workings of the mask? That link to the costume designer mentioned 'gas'. This was never even alluded to in the final product. So basically it seemed as if Bane was helped from terrible pain by a mask that by all appearances would cause horrible pain and constriction. His entire speech pattern was affected by it. Yet, you don't need to know. The entire plane gag was predicated on the CIA agent wanting to know more about the mask...yet you never did. Rendering that entire fabulous segment pretty irrelevant. So yeah, sometimes I do think that Nolan loves his ideas so much that he sacrifices story/character integrity for his set pieces. It happened in Inception(which was a much tighter movie) with one too many dream within a dreams. Catwomans outfit was another inconsistency. As I have railed before, everything else about these movies is superhero dissected by graphic realism, yet the girl runs around in skintight leather kicking people with stiletto heels. Live by reality, die by reality. And honestly...judging by the lack of interest in this thread until I hatemongered some more, you guys are underwhelmed and are unable/afraid to admit it was disappointing. Other threads, such as Prometheus and even Avengers...had way longer shelf lives than this one. You guys have already moved on. My dislike of these movies is Nolans obvious distaste for the material he is making his mark with. Batman hardly appearing, and when he does the action sequences(as far as fighting) are perfunctory and clumsy. And mythology just being discarded because he can't make sense of it. Ridiculous. You can't straddle the fence here. I am going to say something that is not going to go over well here. Schumacher's Batman & Robin was more honest and more respectful of the source material. Nipple suits, codpieces and all. And, as bad as that movie was, it was at least fun. Unintentionally maybe but still fun.

Another thing...Bane, in the comics and in the movie...BROKE the Bat. He was Batman's DOOMSDAY. A big bad like no other. Nolan's Bane was just a guy which really made Batman seem pretty pathetic. You take away the majesty of the whole storyline and it's just basically the WWE. And Nolan's absolute dismissal of Bane when he was done with the plot deviceeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr character(Catwoman blasting him w/bike cannons) rendered him even more average. I swear that was a worse end than the whole Boba Fett 'whooaooaooaooaaaoooooooo' and down-the-gullet exit.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Not a hater...as such. Like I said, enjoyed the movie when I was watching it. But really? You don't need to know the workings of the mask? That link to the costume designer mentioned 'gas'. This was never even alluded to in the final product. So basically it seemed as if Bane was helped from terrible pain by a mask that by all appearances would cause horrible pain and constriction. His entire speech pattern was affected by it. Yet, you don't need to know. The entire plane gag was predicated on the CIA agent wanting to know more about the mask...yet you never did. Rendering that entire fabulous segment pretty irrelevant. So yeah, sometimes I do think that Nolan loves his ideas so much that he sacrifices story/character integrity for his set pieces. It happened in Inception(which was a much tighter movie) with one too many dream within a dreams. Catwomans outfit was another inconsistency. As I have railed before, everything else about these movies is superhero dissected by graphic realism, yet the girl runs around in skintight leather kicking people with stiletto heels. Live by reality, die by reality. And honestly...judging by the lack of interest in this thread until I hatemongered some more, you guys are underwhelmed and are unable/afraid to admit it was disappointing. Other threads, such as Prometheus and even Avengers...had way longer shelf lives than this one. You guys have already moved on. My dislike of these movies is Nolans obvious distaste for the material he is making his mark with. Batman hardly appearing, and when he does the action sequences(as far as fighting) are perfunctory and clumsy. And mythology just being discarded because he can't make sense of it. Ridiculous. You can't straddle the fence here. I am going to say something that is not going to go over well here. Schumacher's Batman & Robin was more honest and more respectful of the source material. Nipple suits, codpieces and all. And, as bad as that movie was, it was at least fun. Unintentionally maybe but still fun.

Well you're definitely right about one thing.

I just don't get it. You're told he wears it to keep the pain at bay. There are tubes which are obviously there for the gas to pass through. It's obvious.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Not a hater...as such. Like I said, enjoyed the movie when I was watching it. But really? You don't need to know the workings of the mask? That link to the costume designer mentioned 'gas'. This was never even alluded to in the final product. So basically it seemed as if Bane was helped from terrible pain by a mask that by all appearances would cause horrible pain and constriction. His entire speech pattern was affected by it. Yet, you don't need to know. The entire plane gag was predicated on the CIA agent wanting to know more about the mask...yet you never did. Rendering that entire fabulous segment pretty irrelevant. So yeah, sometimes I do think that Nolan loves his ideas so much that he sacrifices story/character integrity for his set pieces. It happened in Inception(which was a much tighter movie) with one too many dream within a dreams. Catwomans outfit was another inconsistency. As I have railed before, everything else about these movies is superhero dissected by graphic realism, yet the girl runs around in skintight leather kicking people with stiletto heels. Live by reality, die by reality. And honestly...judging by the lack of interest in this thread until I hatemongered some more, you guys are underwhelmed and are unable/afraid to admit it was disappointing. Other threads, such as Prometheus and even Avengers...had way longer shelf lives than this one. You guys have already moved on. My dislike of these movies is Nolans obvious distaste for the material he is making his mark with. Batman hardly appearing, and when he does the action sequences(as far as fighting) are perfunctory and clumsy. And mythology just being discarded because he can't make sense of it. Ridiculous. You can't straddle the fence here. I am going to say something that is not going to go over well here. Schumacher's Batman & Robin was more honest and more respectful of the source material. Nipple suits, codpieces and all. And, as bad as that movie was, it was at least fun. Unintentionally maybe but still fun.

I guess I just don't get why this is such a big deal. I don't care how it works the same as I don't care how Batman gadget #68498 works. I just assume because of the movie that it does and go on. There ARE definite plot holes in the movie, but neither Bane's mask nor Alfred's green-screened appearance mean anything to me.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Another thing...Bane, in the comics and in the movie...BROKE the Bat. He was Batman's DOOMSDAY. A big bad like no other. Nolan's Bane was just a guy which really made Batman seem pretty pathetic. You take away the majesty of the whole storyline and it's just basically the WWE. And Nolan's absolute dismissal of Bane when he was done with the plot deviceeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr character(Catwoman blasting him w/bike cannons) rendered him even more average. I swear that was a worse end than the whole Boba Fett 'whooaooaooaooaaaoooooooo' and down-the-gullet exit.

I totally agree with Bane's death being disappointing, but I don't see the dismissal of the source material. Yeah, he changed Bane to suit his needs, much like he did all the other characters, but he DID have Bane lift Batman over his head and then slam him on his knee like in the comics (even though the injury ended up nowhere near as severe), Selina's mug shot looked like a direct nod to that Adam Hughes Catwoman mugshot cover (with less boobs) and there were a ton of Batman: Year One references in Batman Begins.

I get the feeling Nolan enjoys the source material just fine, but he's only going to use what bits of it fit his story. Or, hell, it could have been Goyer and Jonathan Nolan working that stuff in without Chris knowing it was comic-sourced. I don't know. But I never got the feeling Chris Nolan had any kind of disdain for the comics.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Live by reality, die by reality. And honestly...judging by the lack of interest in this thread until I hatemongered some more, you guys are underwhelmed and are unable/afraid to admit it was disappointing.

This. This right here.

This is why The Dark Knight Rises is little more than a Twinkie of a flick.

There's absolutely zero realism in this movie. It's almost exclusively "fan service".

Originally Posted by adgy-san

Yeah, he changed Bane to suit his needs, much like he did all the other characters, but he DID have Bane lift Batman over his head and then slam him on his knee like in the comics (even though the injury ended up nowhere near as severe),

Which was utterly stupid.

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

This. This right here.

This is why The Dark Knight Rises is little more than a Twinkie of a flick.

There's absolutely zero realism in this movie. It's almost exclusively "fan service".

Ehh... there's only so much realism to go around in a movie about a bajillionaire who dresses up as a bat and fights crime with experimental military weapons. I don't recall Nolan or anyone else actually affiliated with this movie calling it realistic, though there certainly seemed to be an effort to ground the entire thing in a somewhat more realistic world. At the end of the day, though, this is still a Batman flick.

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

Which was utterly stupid.

No argument there.

Originally Posted by adgy-san

I guess I just don't get why this is such a big deal. I don't care how it works the same as I don't care how Batman gadget #68498 works. I just assume because of the movie that it does and go on. There ARE definite plot holes in the movie, but neither Bane's mask nor Alfred's green-screened appearance mean anything to me.



I totally agree with Bane's death being disappointing, but I don't see the dismissal of the source material. Yeah, he changed Bane to suit his needs, much like he did all the other characters, but he DID have Bane lift Batman over his head and then slam him on his knee like in the comics (even though the injury ended up nowhere near as severe), Selina's mug shot looked like a direct nod to that Adam Hughes Catwoman mugshot cover (with less boobs) and there were a ton of Batman: Year One references in Batman Begins.

I get the feeling Nolan enjoys the source material just fine, but he's only going to use what bits of it fit his story. Or, hell, it could have been Goyer and Jonathan Nolan working that stuff in without Chris knowing it was comic-sourced. I don't know. But I never got the feeling Chris Nolan had any kind of disdain for the comics.

Batman Begins: Batman: Year One, Batman: The Demon's Head, etc.

The Dark Knight: The Killing Joke, The Long Halloween, etc.

The Dark Knight Rises: The Dark Knight Returns, Knightfall, No Man's Land, etc.

There are more references to the comics in these movies than any other Bat films before them.