Thread: The Dark Knight Rises -- spoiler discussion

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

No. We're not. The movie was wrong.

The whole goddamn premise of Batman as a character is total BS if you really want to get into it. The idea that just because a billionaire has rage and karate training means he can take down an empire of crime that runs a city is absurd. I'm willing to overlook that major stumbling block to enjoy a movie/comic for what it is. Set in the real world or not. . .there's certain things you have to accept. One of those is that a guy can jump several floors down in a parking structure with such force that it smashes a vans roof (as in the first one). Another is that a guy can fly through the air reaching likely speeds of 100mph+, crash through a window, somersault in through a window, and fight off guys with machine guns (like he did in the second one). In fact, a lot of the most believable **** happens in the third one if you compare it to the first two.

Originally Posted by SmytheKing

In fact, a lot of the most believable **** happens in the third one if you compare it to the first two.

He could fall through a skylight.

Originally Posted by SmytheKing

The whole goddamn premise of Batman as a character is total BS if you really want to get into it. The idea that just because a billionaire has rage and karate training means he can take down an empire of crime that runs a city is absurd. I'm willing to overlook that major stumbling block to enjoy a movie/comic for what it is. Set in the real world or not. . .there's certain things you have to accept. One of those is that a guy can jump several floors down in a parking structure with such force that it smashes a vans roof (as in the first one). Another is that a guy can fly through the air reaching likely speeds of 100mph+, crash through a window, somersault in through a window, and fight off guys with machine guns (like he did in the second one). In fact, a lot of the most believable **** happens in the third one if you compare it to the first two.

But...isn't this series supposed to be a 'realistic' take on Batman? That's where I get annoyed w/Nolan. He dispenses with the fantastic elements of a superhero movie, yet he can't make EVERYTHING actually work. And it seems to me, when he gets called on it, he has no excuse and gets 'huffy'. It's a Batman movie with very little Batman and a SUPERhero movie with very little super. I don't want to believe that ANYONE can be a hero. I want to believe that one fantastic person rose above and did things others would NEVER be capable of. I don't want to believe I am a batcave away from being Batman because that commentary on my inability to live up to my potential is far too much to take.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

But...isn't this series supposed to be a 'realistic' take on Batman? That's where I get annoyed w/Nolan. He dispenses with the fantastic elements of a superhero movie, yet he can't make EVERYTHING actually work. And it seems to me, when he gets called on it, he has no excuse and gets 'huffy'. It's a Batman movie with very little Batman and a SUPERhero movie with very little super. I don't want to believe that ANYONE can be a hero. I want to believe that one fantastic person rose above and did things others would NEVER be capable of. I don't want to believe I am a batcave away from being Batman because that commentary on my inability to live up to my potential is far too much to take.

It's a realistic take, yes. But, to even have a Batman character, there are certain things that aren't believable. A billionaire who knows how to fly planes, ride motorcycles, and drive fast cars in one thing, driving them like stuntmen and expert racers or fighter pilots is something else. That's what makes him a superhero. Not because of any magical powers or rings or ability to transform into fire. You go in knowing that even though the series is trying to put a realistic spin on things, there's that 10% that just isn't real because, at the end of the day, he's a comic book character and the main core things about him aren't real.

Again though, I don't think the message of the movie(s) is that anyone can be Batman. As it was said, the Batman is just a symbol. Something everyone can rally behind. Being a hero doesn't mean that you end crime in your city. It can be (blatant stealing here) putting a coat around a little boys shoulders and telling him it isn't the end of the world. It's all relative. Being good. Doing good things. That can be heroic if your whole city is infested with bad. You don't need a billion dollars for that. Nolan was using Batman as a light at the end of the tunnel for people in Gotham. He wasn't there to rescue everyone as much as he was there to let people know that help was there and that not all was lost.

That isn't to say you can't have valid criticisms about the narrative or style or (ahem) lack of joy in the movies. Those are all perfectly within the realm of fairness. Sometimes things just don't work for everyone. I loved Avatar. I know one or two folks that didn't. I can't find one redeeming thing about Children of Men (speaking about lack of joy) but I know some that think it's the best thing ever. To each their own really. I just think you guys are too deep into the "realistic take" thing and not really seeing that it's about as realistic a take as you can get on a Batman story. The fact is though, you can't eliminate everything in the realm of the impossible.

Here's my final (heh yea right) take on it....

I'm choosing to believe that Warner Brothers probably had a laundry list of requests and demands and Nolan made the best movie he could around them.

I have no evidence or any good reason to believe this... but I do anyway.

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

Here's my final (heh yea right) take on it....

I'm choosing to believe that Warner Brothers probably had a laundry list of requests and demands and Nolan made the best movie he could around them.

I have no evidence or any good reason to believe this... but I do anyway.

You would think the studio learned their lesson after doing that to Schumacher. You'd hope.

Originally Posted by NastiMarvasti

You would think the studio learned their lesson after doing that to Schumacher. You'd hope.

There's learning your lesson and then there's learning your lesson.

I'm sure WB had far less interference than in past projects... but they're still WB and it's still Batman. They're not going to be completely hands off.