The Official CBA Negotiations/Lockout Super Thread

The CBA needs to be structured so everyone makes an honest profit, Which would probably mean a 60/40 split for the owners. I feel for the players, they play one of if not the most dangerous/grueling sports of the big 4 and make the least. Kobe is making what, 27M salary this year? However this is the career they chose, and the risk they took. I chose my career and was laid off for 3-4 months a couple years ago due to the recession because my company's owner wasn't going to take a loss paying my salary while income(work) was down.

... But I guess that is all different when you're rich enough to buy a team that you know you'll take a loss on, eh? In my world it's about being able to eat, make the bills, put a roof over my head and maybe have some left over for a beer on Friday night. I don't think any of them (player or owner) will ever have worry about the economy not returning, and losing their home.

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Originally Posted by Birdman

It really seems to be only about a $130M Delta.

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That's less than $200K per the 700 member PA.

It's the principle!!!

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Originally Posted by KingInTheWest

Most of the hate for the Yankees is because they win so much (and can spend as much as they want to do it). Most of the hate for the Canucks is because they are a bunch of diving d-bags. A-Roid maybe could be an honorary Canuck.

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The Yankees win so much because they can buy championships. Look at their payroll and roster for the past 5-10 years. They have millions more then the next team on the list. MLB should be like the NHL in set a cap and if they go over they forfeit games until they are under it. It actually adds strategy. Loved seeing them get swept to the Tigers which is nice to see a new team in there finally.

These small market teams have no chance in competing for the most part. They will need to get lucky with draft picks but by the time their contract is up, the Yankees will just sign them.

you are almost completely wrong. the players did not know that the owners would propose to roll back the salaries, and the players knew that even if they did they would fight to prevent that from happening. the situation that you are describing is a doubly bad faith effort on the part of the owners. not only did they negotiate contracts that they never intended to fulfill, they also proposed a cba where they had no intention of fulfilling their contractual demands.

under the most recent proposal, the owners aren't paying for the difference in what the contracts are worth and what the players are actually getting paid. that money comes from the players in the form of future money that they would have earned.

not only are the owners saying that the players cannot have the full value of their contracts now. they are adding insult to injury by saying that if you want to get the full value eventually, the players have to pay for it themselves. i don't know any reasonable human being that would accept the terms that the owners have been offering.

and if you still believe that the owners are operating in the word of real ideas and not fantasy, i ask you to consider how bettman said point blank, we don't negotiate in public, and then not 24 hours later they release the entire proposal complete with the PR spin that they learned from Frank Putz's consulting firm.

I've never said that both sides are blameless here, but the mental gymnastics some of you are performing to side with the owners is mind-boggling.

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Originally Posted by aragorn

Yes but Every single player and agent understands that all contracts are based upon the CBA and the sharing of HRR. If someone signs a 10 Million dollar deal, but the players portion of HRR goes down by 7%, then they really have a 9.3 Million dollar deal. The players knew this when they signed their deals. Any player who signed last summer did so with the full knowledge that the new CBA wasn't going to be for 57%, and that they would functionally make less money than the contract appeared to represent. They also understood that signing for $10 Million under the old CBA would functionally be the same as signing for 9.3 Million under a 50/50 split. Everyone who is saying it's wrong for the players to not get every penny owed to them under the contracts is simply misunderstanding the structure of the contracts. The players will get every penny owed to them, just as they have for the past 7 years as many owners bled. The owners have lived up to every one of their contractual obligations. The players know this, but keep playing this card because they think that we fans will think it's wrong for the owners not to honor the contracts. That said, go ahead and give the players the full amount of pay but then by year three of the contract it should be more like 60/40 of HRR in the owners favor. At least the owners would get long term gain for short term pain. I always thought 50/50 was too high for the players as is. The owners asked the players before all this to keep the salary cap frozen this season because of this potential damage control... the answer was no. So we have it as it always was...Doughty's large 7 mil salary based on 57% (so it could actually go up or down every season) or now 7 mil based on 50% (still could go up or down every season but certainly down the first 2).

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Originally Posted by Birdman

You're not getting the point.

In the 18 Seasons since Fehr's Great Luxury Tax was implemented, the Yankees have Won their division 13 times. . . .

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I wasn't seeking to "get" or comment on "the point" or to somehow comment on the differences between the MLB collective bargaining system and those in any other sport (and, while I'll freely admit that I don't understand all of the economics here, you seem to be claiming some sort of cause/effect relationship that may not exist). I was simply saying that it's a wonderful thing that the Yankees won't be in the World Series this year.

http://i.imgur.com/Ej1CT.png

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Originally Posted by santiclaws

http://i.imgur.com/Ej1CT.png

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This shall be facebooked.

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Originally Posted by Birdman

Looking at the numbers, the only way the NHL is proposing to do this is to shave of 12% of all the players salaries, right now, on every contract. That's the biggest issue the players have.

And I agree with them a bit, the drunked GM's put them in this mess, why should the players bail them out? The Wild shouldn't get a 12% break on those contracts that Weber and Parise signed last summer. I bet you ALL the teams were planning for a 50/50 split, and some of them planned based on their being a reduction, and some didn't. Lombardi's one 750K contract short of being under the new cap figure, carrying one extra contract.

Fehr's reasoning on why bother to negotiate also makes sense. We're not going to do a rollback, so let the drunken sailors spend during the UFA period.

The only way I see the owners getting to that new cap figure for the 14 teams over the new cap figure, without a reduction with Amnesty Rights being provided to the owners for multiple contracts this year, or playing next season under last seasons cap number. The new cap number for 2013/14 becomes the 50/50 number. Hell, do both. Give the owners a 50% buyout of the remainder of any contract with 2 years or less remaining.

This isn't actually as bad as I thought it was. You have to get creative on how to get to 50/50, but damned if it can't be done. It really seems to be only about a $130M Delta.

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Good post.

After listening to Fehr's presser I've moved back toward the middle on this one.

Ultimately it is reasonable to gradually move to 50/50. But the players refusal to budge on the length of contract issues is unaccceptable. That part of the system must be altered so we have no more of this cap circumvention bull****.

At the same time, Bettman has to come off of his high horse on insisting that the players take a cut in pay now. it should be about the health of the NHL in the long run.

The Union is strong, these players do not need to earn a paycheck for a couple of years. They have the right to look elsewhere for employment. Stay strong or work in Europe while your family stays here. It will only be for a couple of years.

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Originally Posted by D0wntime

the players did not know that the owners would propose to roll back the salaries, and the players knew that even if they did they would fight to prevent that from happening. the situation.... Not only did they negotiate contracts that they never intended to fulfill, they also proposed a cba where they had no intention of fulfilling their contractual demands.

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Um a blind man knew what was coming at least a year ago. I'd bet almost everyone here knew 50/50 was coming in some shape or form. Before the bidding for players opened the owners even asked for a cap freeze to help. Oh yeah the players knew 50/50 was coming. Their salaries always fluctuate, if revenues drop 10% their salaries drop 10% per the cba. Everything is based off the cba (which we have zippo at the moment). Whatever the new cba winds up being, their salaries will be based on that. You know who it hurts if the players don't go for the owners proposal? It hurts any player whose contract is up in the next 1-3 years. To pay the bloated salaries of a few under a new cap and 50/50 split, all the future new contracts will have to be dumped or cut in half. That's a lot of quality players losing their jobs to poorer playing rookies or getting massive pay cuts so teams can get under the cap in one year. I hope players in that situation realize it. Now it's not how I would do it. I would try and gradually phase in the new %, but if I'm taking hits gradually phasing in the new % then the % I eventually want as an owner paying the bills is 60/40 in my favor. Immediate 50/50 or long-term 60/40.