Thread: The Official CBA Negotiations/Lockout Super Thread

Crap....we're at an impasse

NHL labor talks stall with 2 weeks before CBA expires - ESPN

NEW YORK -- Labor talks between the NHL and NHLPA have stalled, making a lockout increasingly likely with the current collective bargaining agreement set to expire Sept. 15.



After three days of discussions this week, the two sides decided to recess Friday. The NHL and NHLPA have reached a standoff on the core economic issues and have no further talks scheduled.
The impasse resulted after discussions Friday, when the NHLPA responded to the league's counter-proposal submitted earlier this week.



The critical issue preventing the two sides from forging common ground is the league's request for a decreased share of revenue for the players.


The players do not want to entertain any offer that requires them to make any absolute salary reduction.


The league's latest proposal asked the player to reduce their share from 57 percent to 46 percent. The union countered with a three-year system that featured multiple fourth-year options that would allow the players to snap back to the current share.



NHL commissioner Gary Bettman accused the union of "stonewalling" and said he was disappointed by Friday's events. He also disputed NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr's assertion that the owners elected to recess.



"That's an unfair and inaccurate characterization," Bettman said.



Both sides said they are amenable to resuming discussions should the other have new ideas to present, but neither camp seems willing to budge at this point.

Originally Posted by Jeffrock

So what? They are still employees at the end of the day. If they don't like it, they can
a) Buy a team and become their own employers
b) Go find work elsewhere, just like any other employee that feels under-compensated by their boss/company/etc.

I don't buy the physical risk aspect either. Nobody forced them into that profession, similar to firemen and crab fishermen.

I see employees have an inflated sense of self-worth all the time. My dad used to remind me when I was acting like my crap doesn't stink: JFK was assassinated and the world didn't end. Meaning, everyone is replaceable.

You continually state that the players are mere employees. Yes, they are, but they are decidedly NOT employees in the sense that millions of people are. These guys are elite athletes, with skills exclusive to a few thousand people out of six billion. We are blessed that a few hundred have devoted their young lives to being entertainers in the sport of ice hockey.

Let me ask you this . . . does it bother you that someone like Tom Hanks can write his own ticket? Or do you think that he should be making a wage similar to a middle-of-the-road actor, one who has to hustle for bit parts and perhaps struggles to support a family exclusively with his talent? Or how about a musical performer like Michael Jackson? With record companies falling all over themselves trying to sign him, should he have just said, "nah, I'll just take $60,000 per record, and by the way, I don't mind playing any kind of cheesy dive that might be interested in having me"? (I'm only using Mr. Jackson because he's easily recognizable. I'm not a fan of his music, his celebrity, or his bs.)

The bottom line here is that I will not pay to watch guys pour concrete, nor work in an office, nor serve fast food, nor . . . run a professional sports team. I will pay to watch elite athletes compete.

Originally Posted by omzzzzz

Crap....we're at an impasse

NHL labor talks stall with 2 weeks before CBA expires - ESPN

Originally Posted by AngelEyes

You continually state that the players are mere employees. Yes, they are, but they are decidedly NOT employees in the sense that millions of people are. These guys are elite athletes, with skills exclusive to a few thousand people out of six billion. We are blessed that a few hundred have devoted their young lives to being entertainers in the sport of ice hockey.

Let me ask you this . . . does it bother you that someone like Tom Hanks can write his own ticket?

He can write his own ticket but the movie has a budget. If Hanks stars in it then they get crappier actors surrounding him or cut special effects so the product makes a profit. If it sucks and losses money, then next movie Hanks gets less cash. Possibly the studio goes under if too many times it loses money but that only means a few less movies out there and less money for other actors... or they film out of the country. And hockey teams can't fire players if they fail to perform and bring in the fans. If 18 teams fold for continual losses that also means less money in the pool for players. And 18 teams losing cash doesn't mean 12 teams are awash in cash... I think 6 teams are doing quite well. And if the LA Kings are breaking even or losing a little (even with the playoffs) think of travel expenses and extra player jetlag if all their games would be played on the east coast because of moving every money losing franchise. You need 30 teams nicely spaced to be fair and it's not asking a lot to make sure 90% of your teams make a profit whether they make the playoffs or not. Sure, if you can do well as a team every year you'll make a heck of a lot more than your competitors but they shouldn't lose money every year. All the teams should be able to make money spending at the midpoint of the hi/lo cap. Maybe the new cba should simply state that teams must break even based on the cap midpoint, or the excess loss gets cut from player's salaries on whatever percentage is agreed upon in the new cba. If the players get 51% of revenue then the players have to pay 51% of the losses.

I know i've said all of this before, but it seems that some of you need a remedial class.

the current cba is the result of the owners getting almost all of their demands met.

the owners are the ones that mandated that salaries be tied to revenue as a way of achieving cost certainty.

the owners are also the ones that authorized doing whatever they could to circumvent those rules that raised costs (and revenues).

the owners now want to reset that and not only alter the definition of hockey related revenues, thus ensuring that players get a smaller piece of the revenue pie, but also offer a smaller percentage of hrr, thus offering players a smaller percentage of an already smaller pie.

the owners have offered no reason for this except to say that this is what they want. and since they are the owners this is what they should get.

guess what, the players have a RIGHT to negotiate. no, the players can't dictate to the players what will be. Some of you are suggesting that the players should not exercise their rights to collectively bargain. thats stupid and insane. you know what, even though i have the right to vote i'm not using it right now so the government can have it especially when it comes time to vote. i mean it is the government and they run things so...

but then you say, the government is different because its not their money. well guess what, players may not own the team, but they do own their labor. and they can decide at what price they will sell their labor and under what conditions.

and guess what. that's what they're doing. so when (some of) you complain that the players should just shut up and play remember that just as the owners are trying to maximize profits, so are players trying to maximize their income.

if i were the players, i would take your guys' advice and take my labor somewhere else. i'd go to russia or sweden and play over there. **** the nhl and its owners.

who are you gonna blame then?

Two words, Donald Fehr. You might want to check with Major League baseball... just sayin'

Originally Posted by D0wntime

if i were the players, i would take your guys' advice and take my labor somewhere else. i'd go to russia or sweden and play over there. **** the nhl and its owners.

who are you gonna blame then?

There are a couple of problems with this idea, including the big one being that North American players didn't grow up with the idea of turning pro and playing in the KHL or SEL. They dreamed of the NHL and the Stanley Cup. Someone like Drew Doughty might be a big star in Canada, have endorsements and things like that here. He's not going to get those endorsements playing in Sweden or Russia.

1) Many of the leagues in Europe have limits on the number of foreign born players they can bring in. The star players in the NHL wouldn't have trouble finding jobs, but the 3rd and 4th liners and bottom defense pairing type guys would. They might be able to make a similar salary in Russia, but not in some of the other European leagues.

2) While I think some players might be ok with the idea of playing in the KHL for a month or two if the lockout is short, I don't know if it's something many North American born players are going to want to do for a year or more. Besides the culture shock, I think there are legitimate safety issues that players would be concerned about. Maybe it's just the Western media overhyping things, but based on this article I'd imagine North American-born players would be concerned about air travel, rink safety, being blackmailed/robbed, teams not paying players or honoring all the provisions in their contract.

KHL: Gun-slinging owners, drugs, dodgy air travel all part of the game - thestar.com

The owners' initial draconian broadside was a totally belligerent statement. The lockout is, and has been, their primary tactic of choice.

If it goes into effect on the stipulated date, with no willingness on their part to save the start of the season, the players should sell their services to other parties.

If the speculation about the owners playing hardball until the Winter Classic is on the near horizon before really negotiating to any great degree proves to be correct, the players ought to go on strike if the owners are still offering bupkiss (albeit closer bupkiss, perhaps).

The gloves would have been long off at that point.

Maybe the NHL could present the Winter Scabfest instead; it would be hilarious to hear the resulting rationalizations for and circumlocution around the continuing labor dispute. I guess they could also use this tack if the players have taken their services elsewhere. I hear that Daryl Evans has a hockey class coming up; maybe they'll be available as replacements.

To see Bob Costas at a loss for words would be priceless; the other 50 talking heads that are generally there would be a 3-ring circus. Or the monkeys (sorry mitchrock) at the zoo.

It wouldn't be only a trainwreck. It would be a trainwreck with a plane crashing into the train and an earthquake opening up a fissure beneath the tracks at the same time.

I'd probably DVR it. I don't even usually watch it, being that it has the same 4 teams in it all the time.

How can you strike if you're locked out?