Thread: The Official CBA Negotiations/Lockout Super Thread

Originally Posted by roenick

I have got to say the owners are the problem here though. They continue to go to the well (the players) to continue to ask for more and more when they have gotten everything in recent stoppages.

Boy, talk about looking at it from one side. The players asked for the salary reduction last time in exchange for 57% percent of HRR. Yeah the owners got screwed on that one. Average salary going up from 750kish to 2.5 milish... yeah the owners got screwed again... the devil's in the details. The owners got their cap but a high bottom cap (that bottom cap which has actually worked great for parity). Bottom line is from where they were last time to this time the players are doing great... 6 teams are doing fair to great, and 18 teams are doing poor to dismally. The Canadian dollar won't do so well forever and Toronto's (doing great) teachers ownership isn't going to dip much into sharing their teachers pension money. Now there's plenty of blame to go on the owners also but to simply say "the owners are the problem here" is ridiculous..

Originally Posted by Dana

I said before that the PA should really prevent players from tweeting because they're going to say something dumb that annoys a lot of people. It's not a PR battle they can win.

The NHLPA would love to do that, but it can't. In any case, the PR "war' will have exactly zero effect on the CBA negotiations.

Originally Posted by aragorn

Boy, talk about looking at it from one side. The players asked for the salary reduction last time in exchange for 57% percent of HRR. Yeah the owners got screwed on that one. Average salary going up from 750kish to 2.5 milish... yeah the owners got screwed again... the devil's in the details. The owners got their cap but a high bottom cap (that bottom cap which has actually worked great for parity). Bottom line is from where they were last time to this time the players are doing great... 6 teams are doing fair to great, and 18 teams are doing poor to dismally. The Canadian dollar won't do so well forever and Toronto's (doing great) teachers ownership isn't going to dip much into sharing their teachers pension money. Now there's plenty of blame to go on the owners also but to simply say "the owners are the problem here" is ridiculous..

Tell me again how the owners got screwed??!! First they broke the union or do you not remember Trevor Linden joining Ted Saskin for meetings without their union head Goodenow with Bill Daly? They met in Niagra Falls, agreed on a 24% roll back on existing salaries and a $34M cap with a $21.5M minimum - this was an unreal win for the owners back then.

The HRR is a beautiful thing as well and yes it is 57% but it covers all player comp - not just salaries, but bonuses, amounts received by injured players and contract buyouts further eroding the amount of money available for real salaries. Meanwhile the team revenues - ticket prices, parking, beer and food prices - are all subject to supply and demand to the point now that revenues are at roughly $3B. The other amazing concession ownership got that everyone forgets is the Escrow account, which allows the owners money coverage - funded by the players salaries - if they can't control their own spending habits. Does anyone remember what the start of 2011 estimate of spending over the cap? It started at 17% and granted it ended at 6% - the point is the same. The owners reckless spending habits are funded by the players - um ... Ed Snyder, Paul Holgren and the rest of the leagues big spenders sure don't care a lick how their spending habits cause issues for the Phoenix Coyotes or Carolina Hurricanes but Philly's revenues allow for this kind of reckless behavior. Goodenow is famous for telling a story of how an owner told him what a hardy laugh they all enjoy every time the Escrow account topic comes up. The owners are amazed the players not only gave ownership total control of operating and labor costs but committed to funding any over runs they incur.

Look, in the past I have been on ownerships side looking for the integrity of the game. But now it has tipped too far the other way. Who plays this wonderful game we all love? It sure isn't the owners. And now after those players have elevated the game and assisted in bringing revenues to never before seen levels the ownership/league says they need more concessions? I just don't get it and want to see the players back on the ice.

Originally Posted by roenick

Look, in the past I have been on ownerships side looking for the integrity of the game. But now it has tipped too far the other way. Who plays this wonderful game we all love? It sure isn't the owners. And now after those players have elevated the game and assisted in bringing revenues to never before seen levels the ownership/league says they need more concessions? I just don't get it and want to see the players back on the ice.

The problem with looking at total revenues for the league and thinking it is a healthy picture is oversimplifying things. Revenue does not equal profit. You have a handful of teams that are turning a profit and although revenues have increased, costs have increased as well, meaning 2/3-3/4 of the league's teams are having issues. A floor at almost $50 mil is not sustainable for quite a few franchises. Looking at the Kings, I think they'll have a hard time turning a profit if they spend much more on salaries.

The fans are at fault. Stop being enablers and nut up. These two sides know that the fans will be crawling back when and if this is resolved. Nobody has the balls to show their displeasure by not showing up or not to purchase NHL merchandise or anything related to the NHL. The players and owners know that we will be crawling back to the gates as if we are the ones that are at fault. Woops, I guess we are.

It's time to do away with Free Agency.

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

It's time to do away with Free Agency.

Uhhh . . . no. The owners are the one that gave in on this aspect over-and-over-and-over in exchange for other things - the salary cap being one of them. Free agency isn't going anywhere.

I think the solution for MUCH of the problems in the NHL today is the creation of a second contract. An agreement that a second contract can't be longer than, say, 4 years and can't be more than, say 2 1/2 times what the player entry level deal is. Second contracts are what are killing the small market teams and will continue thanks to the owners giving back years in order to obtain what they argued was cost certainty.

There's no way players should be able to command massive contracts at age 22-23 when they are still in the "potential" bracket for the most part.

This also rewards teams form smart management - both with the salary cap AND their drafting/scouting ability.

Originally Posted by dgrycan

Uhhh . . . no.

Uhhh.... yes?

Originally Posted by Dana

You have a handful of teams that are turning a profit and although revenues have increased, costs have increased as well, meaning 2/3-3/4 of the league's teams are having issues.

The fact of the matter is, no one knows anything about the health of the individual franchises. All we have are guesses. Gary Bettman, of all people, has not claimed that a lot of franchises are losing money, he simply said that the players are making too much. The other thing to keep in mind that for most, if not all owners, the ownership of a sports team is not about turning a profit. There are much better ways to invest money. Sports teams make money sometimes, but it is a mistake to equate ownership of sports teams to ownership of other businesses. The primary purpose is NOT to make money. It is an ego and vanity boost. Finally, much of the profit in a franchise is the increase in the value, not the year-to-year profit. On average, the value of NHL franchises has risen very significantly since the last CBA. That 's the biggest profit the owners will reap, and the players do not get a piece of that pie at all.