November 26th, 2013, 03:29 PM #41
Last edited by RagBone; November 26th, 2013 at 03:36 PM.
November 26th, 2013, 03:39 PM #42
I don't think there's a question that Toffoli is staying, and Pearson is going back down.
I see Vey staying up as long as he's getting minutes. He's shown the ability. Taking a few minutes away from the first 2 lines isn't the worst thing in the world. A 4th line that gets 11+ minutes is valuable for the grind. Eating PK time is huge. Would love to keep Kopi and Richards PK minutes down.
The question is will he do enough to stay for the playoffs. I have to believe Management wants him to play 1st line in Manchester and dominate.
Lewis will play, probably in place of Frattin. He just does too much to sit. Manos de Piedra aside.
edit: and Fraser is going to be sitting. He's not done any better than Vey in the D zone. He's tougher and more experienced, but seriously lacking this year.
November 26th, 2013, 03:43 PM #43
If Vey is making this team better, and that's the case, then he should stay. Brown still has defensive lapses and he's supposed to be a veteran. I still wonder what he was thinking with 5x Art Ross Jagr getting puck vs Jersey. At this point I even wonder if he's good at anything. Clifford has never learnt to defend, nobody is having a problem with that.
Vey is playing siginificant minutes on the PK. I do think there's a difference between the PK and playing defensively sound hockey even strength, but he is doing something right.
This "Vey needs to improve this and that kinda stuff" is tiresome. You develop players to ice the best team. You will never receive "mistake free" product from the AHL. I'm also a believer he learns more in the NHL than going back over there, unless he's really a loose missile but he isnt.
Of course he has shortcomings, but I can list quite some shortcomings with others too. That does not mean you just trade players away to keep him up but he adds more than guys like Fraser and probably Clifford too.
November 26th, 2013, 03:49 PM #44
It's not only about Lewis for me. If you want to make the argument that Lewis should play over Frattin then that's fine. But most of Lewis' success has been on the wing. He has played center in the NHL for about as many games as Vey with less success.
Originally Posted by Helvetica
There are too many RW on the team. Maybe Lewis can play LW? But at center I think Vey is a far better option both now and long term than either Lewis or Fraser. Do you disagree with that?
November 26th, 2013, 04:05 PM #45
I guess I don't see Lewis and Vey competing for the same role. Lewis is here for his defensive play. Vey is here for his offense. Both need to broaden and improve their existing skill set, but I see Lewis remaining in the bottom 6, filling in at any vacancy from wing to center, and seeing increased time on the PK. Theoretically, Vey should be competing with Richards/Carter for that 2nd line C, or center a 2B/3 line. Certainly in terms of production Vey is the better option over Fraser and I expect him to play in place of Fraser to start next season. I think Fraser and Frattin are the odd men out, but I still don't see the chair being pulled out from under anybody until next season.
Originally Posted by gretzky99
If the objective is to score more goals from that last center slot, then yeah, Vey is showing to be the better option. But that's making that center position one dimensional. If the objective is to fill that spot with a consistent, defensively sound, role player, that makes little money and might sit in the press box occasionally, then the solution is less clear to me. I'm not saying Vey can't be that guy, but i'm definitely questioning the certainty of it.
November 26th, 2013, 05:14 PM #46
i agree with most of this - i think Lewis and Frattin are competing for a spot. And with Frattin's miniscule cap hit I have to think he is staying.
Originally Posted by Helvetica
That leaves the Kings with the option of Stoll/Fraser or Vey/Stoll at center. i think without question it should be Vey/Stoll. Lewis was playing over Fraser at center and he has virtually no NHL experience at center.
I believe someone is going to have to show the ability to play LW or someone is going to get moved. I don't think the Kings want to play the majority of the season with Carcillo on the LW.
Maybe Richards moves over and Carter centers that line? Maybe Nolan gets some time over there? Maybe Lewis gets a shot? But someone is going to have to play bottom 6 minutes on LW. Or, maybe DL makes a deal for a LW and one of the extra RW gets moved? And again, if that's the case, would you really move Frattin and his less than 500K cap hit? Isn't it more likely to be Lewis with his expiring contract? I'm not saying he will get moved, but I have to think if a forward gets moved there's a decent possibility it could be Lewis.
But Vey fits nicely as C3 - he sees the ice well and is a very good playmaker with great hands. I think the Kings want that third line that can produce some goals. If they are playing with a lead DS can easily switch up Stoll and Vey and shorten the bench late. He does that anyway if Fraser is in the lineup.
November 26th, 2013, 06:00 PM #47
If we were just talking this one season, then yeah sure. But I think that it would be foolish to move Lewis this season because he has a larger cap hit than Frattin. I think Lewis is a much better option than Frattin for the team's long term success, and while it might be constraining THIS season, he's a better fit and better option to keep around. I happen to believe that the 1 year extension he just received was only due to the lowered cap and that next season the cap will rise and Lewis will get an extension and pay raise, but I dont see his contract being an issue long term that effects the team's ability to patch holes. I'll be the first to admit i've criticized the play of this team to start the season, but it's hard to argue that the formula isn't working. Lombardi has been extremely hesitant to step in and make knee jerk changes, and I don't expect him to make one now. I mean, what's he going to do? Trade Lewis, keep Frattin, and hope that whoever LW he was able to find on a low cap hit will come in mid season and remedy the LW position for us? Kind of a big gamble no? All so we can keep Vey up with the club this season? On a team that has performed extremely well over the past 2 seasons w/o him?
Originally Posted by gretzky99
Again, it's not that I disagree with the assessment of play on some of these guys, I just disagree with the solution. I look at having a guy like Vey available for call up as a luxury that hardly any teams in the league can boast about. I don't see the need to make a move now.
November 26th, 2013, 06:09 PM #48
Actually, I liked and karma-ed them both. I just like Happy Gilmore. Funniest comedy of the '90s.
Originally Posted by USCKingsFan31
November 26th, 2013, 06:20 PM #49
I would trade him now for a late 5th rounder and call it a day.
November 26th, 2013, 06:23 PM #50
bottom line about BOTH Vey and Frattin is that we know dick about either one.