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Thread: Jonathan Bernier traded to Toronto, fights, pulls a Quick on a dump in.

  1. #141
    Still here.... DRice's Avatar




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    Everyone has overlooked that we don't have to hear Fox say "Bearrrrrrrrrnnnnyyyeaaah!" Anymore. Win-win.
    mugs likes this.
    LA Kings Hockey - Disappointing Kings fans since 1967!

    LA Kings Hockey - 2012 Stanley Cup Champions!

  2. #142
    1st Scoring Line AngelEyes's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by gescom View Post
    Frattin still leads me to further believe Clifford is going
    I would be interested in seeing someone take a shot at updating / guestimating Dean's boxes.

  3. #143
    Bring on Vancouver! USCKingsFan31's Avatar




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    The "Bernier was a 1st round pick fail/Was supposed to be the goalie of the future" people don't seem to understand that the only reason that he didn't become that was because we ended up grooming a BETTER franchise goalie. He provided insurance if that didn't happen, and you could argue (as I certainly would) that Bernier's presence played a big role in Quick's development into the goaltender he is today.

    For all of the picks that never even crack an NHL roster, a first round pick that is an outstanding backup and good locker-room guy for three playoff-run years (including a Stanley Cup) that gets flipped for a solid winger with upside and a second round pick is not even a bad return investment, let alone the terrible one you are trying to make it out to be.
    Bruin26 and Bollocks like this.

  4. #144
    1st Scoring Line gretzky99's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    Ok, so you're changing your position? That getting a 1st rounder wasn't even a good idea?
    i'm not sure i ever said he would get a first rounder. i was just saying he would get a good return, better than what recent young goalies have returned, and i think he did. i thought a first rounder was a possibility, but three quality assets for Bernier is a very good return. i was thinking first round pick OR a top 6/9 forward and a pick. DL got a top 6/9 forward, a quality back up and a 2nd. i would have loved a player and a first but that was a stretch.

    it was better than Lindback, better than Bishop - not as good as Varlamov but by all accounts that was a total overpayment.

  5. #145
    Agitating Esq. AlleyAlBee's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by jom View Post
    Joking aside, I think that you are not thinking enough of the REALITY of the situation.

    Also, for this not being "a great day for the organization": No...it's not a great day but it isn't bad at all. I'd call it an average day for a team that won a Cup in 2012 and got to the WCF in 2013.

    jom
    Nah, the reality of the situation is that it sucks. I understand it was a necessary move, but the Kings were definitely not dealing from a position of strength there. Any time the best way you can justify a trade is, "Well, that was the best offer that was out there..." - it's not a good thing.

  6. #146
    1st Scoring Line Bollocks's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    What facts are you using that Scrivens can't have the same 5-6-2 record and .909 sv% Bernier had during the Cup run?



    I like the deal and generally like Frattin but he needs to mature and it remains to be seen if he fully recovers from his knee injury.



    Apparently, threads like vBookie for SCF game 4 and the Jersey Framing threads are too important to get bumped off the 1st page.



    So this is what you honestly thought Bernier was worth? Because it IS pretty close to what I thought he was worth.

    There is no way in hell Frattin + Scrivens + a '14 or '15 2nd rounder = a mid 1st rounder.
    I have to admit you were righter than me.

    But, that being said...I think it's a very very close call, and yes, it heavily depends on how good the draft with the 2nd rounder will be.

  7. #147
    1st Scoring Line eskymi's Avatar




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    I do find it funny we talk about Bernier's potential but immediately poo-poo the deal we got. Why don't we look at the potential of the players we received.

    Bernier has potential to be a #1 goalie, but he would only be a back up in LA. He has a record of 29 - 26 (counting OT losses as losses, I hate the OT stuff as it makes someones record seem better than it is...to me a loss is a loss). He has 2.36 GAA and .917 sv % in 69 games....so that could qualify as a full season.

    In Frattin he has played a the equivalent full season and he has 13 g and 15 A....if we could get that out of a 3rd line winger, that would be pretty damn good, I think.

    Scrivens was in 32 career games....11 - 16, 2.86 and .910 sv %....similar sv % as Bernier....maybe he sees fewer quality shots during his time in LA with the LA defense and he is just as good a backup as JB.

    The pick, I have always felt that draft picks are a crap shoot, so you need them, but where you get them should not matter unless you have a weak draft and only a few quality players than the higher the better. But if your scouts do a good job, then you should be able to find gems in the 3rd, 4th etc rounds.
    Last edited by eskymi; June 23rd, 2013 at 12:30 PM.

  8. #148
    Hit it like a baby seal SmytheKing's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by AlleyAlBee View Post
    Nah, the reality of the situation is that it sucks. I understand it was a necessary move, but the Kings were definitely not dealing from a position of strength there. Any time the best way you can justify a trade is, "Well, that was the best offer that was out there..." - it's not a good thing.
    I'd advise you all to take this posters opinion with a grain of salt. He/She is one of the ones who didn't have too hard a time blasting Quick during many of the games this playoff year. It's likely they overvalued Bernier more than all the other GM's in the did.

    Curious why people still think goalies are going to bring back these magnificent returns. I can say with almost certainty that if PHI was offering Couturier straight up for Bernier, DL would have taken that.

  9. #149
    1st Scoring Line gretzky99's Avatar




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    DL's track record of 2nd round picks is pretty good, i think.

    2010 - Tyler Toffoli
    2009 - Kyle Clifford
    2008 - Slava Voynov
    2007 - Wayne Simmonds

  10. #150
    1st Scoring Line AngelEyes's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by gretzky99 View Post
    DL's track record of 2nd round picks is pretty good, i think.

    2010 - Tyler Toffoli
    2009 - Kyle Clifford
    2008 - Slava Voynov
    2007 - Wayne Simmonds
    And with some of the thinking around these here parts, they'd all be worth 1st rounders-plus, if they were to be dealt . . . well, Slava . . . .
    mugs likes this.

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