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Thread: Jonathan Bernier traded to Toronto, fights, pulls a Quick on a dump in.

  1. #291
    mmmmm Taco's jammer06's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulCat View Post
    But we can't even package that 2014 pick until when? Seems like that is a very tradable asset for us that we can't use until a certain date.
    Well if they don't let DL have it in 14, he knows he can trade it in 15. I think he can trade the optioned selection as is, just not the specific year.

  2. #292
    Super Sexy Birdman's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulCat View Post
    But we can't even package that 2014 pick until when? Seems like that is a very tradable asset for us that we can't use until a certain date.
    Quote Originally Posted by jammer06 View Post
    Well if they don't let DL have it in 14, he knows he can trade it in 15. I think he can trade the optioned selection as is, just not the specific year.
    I'm pretty sure Lombardi can package that pick whenever he sees fit.
    at the draft party a couple of years ago, and under a considerable haze, i heard Birdman yell out the following (about 4 or 5 times, i think) - "don't marry yourselves to players!" he went on to reiterate that idea more than once on the boards, and i believe it to be absolutely sage.

    ---gescom

  3. #293
    2nd Scoring Line PaulCat's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
    I'm pretty sure Lombardi can package that pick whenever he sees fit.
    I wish that was the case but he can't use that pick now in a deal until Toronto decides they aren't going to use it as I believe they control the option. Not sure how that works.

  4. #294
    1st Scoring Line Bojanglz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post
    Hey, I'd love to see TT slotting in on 2nd line left wing full time. But, this kid doesn't really seem to have a man's body yet. I'm only guessing here, but I doubt he can handle playing over a hundred games in a season+pre+post. Hopefully, a rugged workout regimen during the summer will help, cuz I want to see him lightin' the lamp often.
    Toffoli's body will handle just fine. He was fine in the playoffs and that is a lot more intense and even threw some hits of his own. I have no worries about him being able to handle a full year in the NHL. I am sure he will workout a lot harder this offseason and camp knowing he likely will be on the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiClimacus View Post
    I'd rather put Toffoli in a position where he's most comfortable and where he'll be most productive and that's RW. Frattin seems like he'll have an easier time moving to LW because of his experience in college.
    Toffoli has way more skill then Frattin and did way better in the playoffs then Frattin also. Frattin is NOT a top 6er. Toffoli I think will adjust and play better and produce more at LW then Frattin will. That is just my opinion but I feel it is a good one.

    Side note not pointed to just you 2, but people seem to be way overvaluing Frattin by a lot. Hearing people from TO and others who actually follow the east, sounds like Frattin is just meh. If anything, he may just be an upgrade over King but definitely over Nolan.

  5. #295
    1st Scoring Line gretzky99's Avatar




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    the question of where Toffoli and Frattin play should have less to do with their skill/goal scoring ability and more to do about where they fit in best.

    do you really want two pure goal scorers on the same line? if Frattin is on the line with Richards and Carter he can be the guy that goes to the net. Toffoli isn't built for that - he's more similar to Carter in style of play. he needs to puck in space to shoot.

    the job of a LW on a Richards/Carter line is not to score goals - it's to bang, create traffic and go get pucks. Frattin can do that.

    then Toffoli can play on the 3rd line to start with Stoll and King (or Penner or Clifford) and be the goal scorer. Stoll can distribute and the LW (whoever it is) plays the same role as Frattin on the 2nd line.

    the best lines aren't always the most skilled - you need the right combination of guys.

    i would start the year with these lines...

    Brown-Kopitar-Williams
    Frattin-Richards-Carter
    Clifford-Stoll-Toffoli
    King-Fraser-Lewis

    i like Clifford on the 3rd line to give Toffoli a little protection.

    of course you could see Pearson or Nolan or someone else find their way into the lineup, but that's my guess.

  6. #296
    2nd Scoring Line cyclones22's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by gretzky99 View Post
    the job of a LW on a Richards/Carter line is not to score goals - it's to bang, create traffic and go get pucks. Frattin can do that.
    I'd only add...and score, when the opportunity presents itself. Which is something none of the guys who were tried on Richards LW were able to accomplish last season. From all accounts, Frattin is a banger and doesn't shy away from contact. He appears to have a better scoring touch than any current LW (assuming he is tried on the left) not named Brown. If he can play physical, dig pucks out of the corners and win board battles, he's going to get chances to pot some goals.
    gretzky99 likes this.

  7. #297
    2nd Scoring Line PaulCat's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by gretzky99 View Post
    Brown-Kopitar-Williams
    Frattin-Richards-Carter
    Clifford-Stoll-Toffoli
    King-Fraser-Lewis
    This is pretty close. I still want to revamp our 4th line. I like Fraser but I think it would serve us well to bring in a center with a similar skill set and style of play but is better in the face-off circle. Stoll's injury in the playoffs really exploited how thin that category is for us and King didn't show me enough to warrant bring back next year. I like your thinking about Clifford protecting on Tiffoli but I think he's better suited for the 4th line. Think its a disservice to put Lewis on the 4th line. He does so many things well and a Lewis-Stoll-Tiffoli line I think could be very productive.

  8. #298
    1st Scoring Line Bojanglz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by gretzky99 View Post
    the question of where Toffoli and Frattin play should have less to do with their skill/goal scoring ability and more to do about where they fit in best.

    do you really want two pure goal scorers on the same line? if Frattin is on the line with Richards and Carter he can be the guy that goes to the net. Toffoli isn't built for that - he's more similar to Carter in style of play. he needs to puck in space to shoot.

    the job of a LW on a Richards/Carter line is not to score goals - it's to bang, create traffic and go get pucks. Frattin can do that.

    then Toffoli can play on the 3rd line to start with Stoll and King (or Penner or Clifford) and be the goal scorer. Stoll can distribute and the LW (whoever it is) plays the same role as Frattin on the 2nd line.

    the best lines aren't always the most skilled - you need the right combination of guys.

    i would start the year with these lines...

    Brown-Kopitar-Williams
    Frattin-Richards-Carter
    Clifford-Stoll-Toffoli
    King-Fraser-Lewis

    i like Clifford on the 3rd line to give Toffoli a little protection.

    of course you could see Pearson or Nolan or someone else find their way into the lineup, but that's my guess.
    Toffoli isn't score much playing on a 3rd line with Stoll and Clifford. And who's to say he can't play LW? Richards is a play maker and can bang and having 2 scorers on his in Carter and Toffoli is dangerous.

    As for this comment "the best lines aren't always the most skilled - you need the right combination of guys." I disagree if you are referring to scoring. Please show me a team that has their 3rd or 4th lines scoring more then their top 6. We are talking about goals here not energy/stopper lines or forechecking lines, but skill being Toffoli is a top 6er.

  9. #299
    1st Scoring Line gretzky99's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulCat View Post
    This is pretty close. I still want to revamp our 4th line. I like Fraser but I think it would serve us well to bring in a center with a similar skill set and style of play but is better in the face-off circle. Stoll's injury in the playoffs really exploited how thin that category is for us and King didn't show me enough to warrant bring back next year. I like your thinking about Clifford protecting on Tiffoli but I think he's better suited for the 4th line. Think its a disservice to put Lewis on the 4th line. He does so many things well and a Lewis-Stoll-Tiffoli line I think could be very productive.
    there is some wiggle room in the bottom 6. Lewis can play C or RW. Nolan is there if you need some size. Vey and Pearson could get looks. lots of possibilities for the bottom 6.

  10. #300
    1st Scoring Line gretzky99's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojanglz View Post
    Toffoli isn't score much playing on a 3rd line with Stoll and Clifford. And who's to say he can't play LW? Richards is a play maker and can bang and having 2 scorers on his in Carter and Toffoli is dangerous.

    As for this comment "the best lines aren't always the most skilled - you need the right combination of guys." I disagree if you are referring to scoring. Please show me a team that has their 3rd or 4th lines scoring more then their top 6. We are talking about goals here not energy/stopper lines or forechecking lines, but skill being Toffoli is a top 6er.
    my point is that you don't necessarily put your most offensively talented guys in the top-6.

    both Chicago and Boston have a banger in their top-6. i wouldn't say Bickell is in the top-6 as far as offensive skill, but he's doing pretty well up there. he plays a role and he does it well.

    Frattin played with Kadri last year and he was the beneficiary of scoring a bunch of goals in front of the net. Toffoli won't do that for you. and you don't want Richards there either and you want Carter in space. Frattin is the best guy on the roster to be in front of the net on that line.

    Toffoli would be fine as RW3. Stoll has some skill and Toffoli would most assuredly get power play time where he can use that skill. i'm not saying he should be on the 3rd line forever, but it would be a good place to start. maybe he swaps with Williams if the first line struggles?

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