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Thread: Jonathan Bernier traded to Toronto, fights, pulls a Quick on a dump in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMonger View Post
    This may very well be the most irrelevant question ever posed on this board. Nice.

    But because I see exactly where you're going with it, I'll answer:

    6'0" 205.

    And I'm not a professional hockey player, for the record.
    I have seen you skate and I do believe you could be a professional hockey player, stop selling yourself short.

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    1st Scoring Line AngelEyes's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMonger View Post
    This may very well be the most irrelevant question ever posed on this board. Nice.

    But because I see exactly where you're going with it, I'll answer:

    6'0" 205.

    And I'm not a professional hockey player, for the record.
    I was just wondering if your own size might be influencing your view of this situation.

    I've played amateur hockey for almost 30 years, and I can tell you that at 5'7", I have always had to pick my fights carefully. No, I've never swung a stick like Kessel did when an opponent was otherwise engaged, nor have I ever speared someone. But if someone with a reputation and half a foot taller than I and several dozen pounds heavier were to line up opposite me, tell me that he was going to kick my ass, and then drop his gloves and come after me with a purpose, well, I'm not sure how I would react.
    Last edited by AngelEyes; September 24th, 2013 at 03:24 PM.

  3. #483
    I revoke Man Cards FishMonger's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
    You're obsessing over height, and it may be my fault for bringing up the 6'8" thing, but it's not as much his size as his size AND him being one of the best fighters in the league. Kessel probably doesn't react the same if it was Brian Boyle coming after him but might react the same if it was Tie Domi - who is shorter. It's about the type of player. It would be like Probert going after Kariya. And speaking of Probert we know what happened when someone took shots at Yzerman. Does it matter he used his fist rather than a stick? The message is the same, if a goon messes with a skill player there will be consequences. Scott knows this and was probably counting on it. Hell, as a result of this the Leafs are going to be without Clarkson for 10 games, Kessel for however many he gets, and they might have issues with moving players around/cap space from what I've read. The Sabres might lose Scott for a few games, big deal.

    (Watch how far Maguire slides after taking that shot by Probert. Ouch.)
    I only responded to people saying it's OK for Kessel to respond as such because Scott is huge. I never brought up height, only responded to others doing so.

    It's a completely different era, and this is a completely different situation. I'm not sure what point you're even trying to make here. Are you saying it's OK for Probert to have hit a guy down like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice24 View Post
    I have seen you skate and I do believe you could be a professional hockey player, stop selling yourself short.
    This is evidence enough that you've never seen me play...

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post
    I was just wondering if your own size might be influencing your view of this situation.

    I've played amateur hockey for almost 30 years, and I can tell you that at 5'7", I have always had to pick my fights carefully. No, I've never swung a stick like Kessler did when an opponent was otherwise engaged, nor have I ever speared someone. But if someone with a reputation and half a foot taller than I and several dozen pounds heavier were to line up opposite me, tell me that he was going to kick my ass, and then drop his gloves and come after me with a purpose, well, I'm not sure how I would react.
    I don't know how I would react either, but I think in the NHL it's different. Fights are an expected part of the game. That's not the case in a league I would play in (not sure about you). I find that to be a key factor to whether Scott or Kessler is more of a wienie in this case.

  4. #484
    We are all champions Mr_Conie's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMonger View Post
    I seem to be in the minority on the internet, but I really think what Kessel did was far worse. Using your stick as a weapon 3 times (first one is kind of understandable, but still not good), the last two being while the other guy is tied up with other players or a linesman, is far worse to me than a bigger guy going after a smaller.

    At worst, Scott is an instigator in this case. Kessel, on the other hand, has 2 clear attempts to injure on a guy not facing him.
    No sir, not the minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post
    I don't know if my assessment of Bernier's motivation is off or not, but I'm thinking he engaged Miller as a way of bonding with his new teammates and getting the Leaf fans on his side. A preseason line brawl -- especially one where he already got in 50 minutes of play -- is the perfect time for him to make that kind of statement.

    As to Kessel going lumberjack on Scott, yeah, it does not reflect well on him. But I will say in his defense -- and as a caveat, I'm not a fan of his by any means -- Scott is a huge motherf, who IMO was being a bitch himself for going after a skill player with no history of fighting. I ask any of you who are chiding Kessel for his actions . . . if you're six foot tall, and a guy who is a known and experienced pugulist and stands 6'8" and weighs 270 pounds is coming after you, what are you going to do, eh? Easy to say one thing sitting behind a keyboard; entirely another to be on the ice, having someone that much bigger than you coming after you with the intent to do you harm.
    I think your assessment is off. I think his thought was more of we will kick your ass as a team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alosha27 View Post
    Nobody is gonna be able to kick Scott's ass. That guy is literally a monster. He rag-dolled Westie like there was nothing to it.
    Kessel was fearing for his life and I don't blame him. BTW that last "spear" by Kessel was barely a tap..
    It does not matter even if the spear was an attempt and didnt touch Scott.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
    It is BS, but so is a goon jumping a skill player. It's easy to sit back and criticize Kessel after the fact, but in the heat of the moment if you've got a 6'8" goon trying to kick your ass you're going to react accordingly.
    Turtle

    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    I have no problem with what Kessel did. You get a punk goon coming after you, you defend yourself the only way you can. Then you add a few slashes and a spear to tell him not to do it again. Anyone who's seen hockey from the early 90s or before has seen FAAAAR worse things than this. And why did players do it? Because they were protecting and policing themselves. If the league is gonna allow guys a foot taller to after guys a foot shorter...well, the short guy's gonna defend himself.

    If Scott doesn't want to get sticked don't be a punk goon and go after munchkins.
    LOL at this guys attempt to justify yesterdays actions with 90's hockey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GimpyHip View Post
    Hard to believe Kessel only got 2 minutes for the repeated 2 handed reaper shots with his stick!
    then he circled back around a few seconds later and speared him
    "Pucks are hard"..."Goaltenders, Special Teams, Top Players, Unsung Hero’s and Discipline. Write it down and don't forget it." Darryl Sutter

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    To everyone who is saying, "Oh, that spear hardly touched him."

    You're all full of it. The very action of a spear is sufficient to receive a match penalty. Even if no contact is made. It's in the rules that way for a reason. It's probably the most dangerous thing you can do on the ice.

    To do it while the target is tied up in an altercation is beyond scumbag low. Kessel should get at last 10 games.

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    1st Scoring Line Salty Dog's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMonger View Post
    I only responded to people saying it's OK for Kessel to respond as such because Scott is huge. I never brought up height, only responded to others doing so.
    But you DO realize there's a difference between guys like Scott and Boyle, right? Because you seem reluctant to admit there is one.
    Quote Originally Posted by FishMonger View Post
    It's a completely different era, and this is a completely different situation. I'm not sure what point you're even trying to make here. Are you saying it's OK for Probert to have hit a guy down like that?
    It's a different era, but the "code" or "unwritten rules" haven't changed. I'm not saying it is OK for Probert to do that, just that you have to EXPECT him to do that in a situation where someone takes advantage of a skill player. In this case Orr and McLaren aren't dressed, there isn't anyone on the ice that can remotely handle Scott and he makes it known he's coming after Kessel. What do you expect is going to happen? I'm not a fan of Kessel's by a long shot, he is a punk, but to make it sound like he's the "bad guy" in all this is a bit short-sighted IMO. You can't look at his slash or spear separate from the whole incident or without taking into account everything else that led up to it - including the fight that happened right before this. I'm still not sure what Toronto was thinking by putting Kessel out there when they knew the Sabres were pissed, but that's a whole other discussion I guess.

  8. #488
    I revoke Man Cards FishMonger's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
    But you DO realize there's a difference between guys like Scott and Boyle, right? Because you seem reluctant to admit there is one.
    It's a different era, but the "code" or "unwritten rules" haven't changed. I'm not saying it is OK for Probert to do that, just that you have to EXPECT him to do that in a situation where someone takes advantage of a skill player. In this case Orr and McLaren aren't dressed, there isn't anyone on the ice that can remotely handle Scott and he makes it known he's coming after Kessel. What do you expect is going to happen? I'm not a fan of Kessel's by a long shot, he is a punk, but to make it sound like he's the "bad guy" in all this is a bit short-sighted IMO. You can't look at his slash or spear separate from the whole incident or without taking into account everything else that led up to it - including the fight that happened right before this. I'm still not sure what Toronto was thinking by putting Kessel out there when they knew the Sabres were pissed, but that's a whole other discussion I guess.
    Of course there is a difference in the players. Some guys are scarier than others. I haven't avoiding admitting that, because it's obvious and I didn't realize that was even in question.


    The Leafs and linesmen that jumped on Scott seemed to handle him fine. Then Kessel sees an opportunity to exact revenge on a guy who said was going to fight him, but never had a chance. And then he goes back once more after it's all over and Scott is still tied up by a linesman.

    I don't expect that kinda bitch play from anyone, to be honest.

    Well, maybe Corey Perry.


    What's most interesting to me is Scott's quotes after the game. It's from him, so take it with a grain of salt, but he said he told Kessel he had to fight him, and Kessel said OK. In Kessel's interviews, he never said he turned down Scott, he just kept on saying "What was I supposed to do?" So if Kessel agrees, then really what right does he have to be pissed about Scott trying to fight him? Just say no and skate away. Don't plan on swinging your stick as many times as you can.
    Last edited by FishMonger; September 23rd, 2013 at 04:36 PM.

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    Bruins Fan Gator Mike's Avatar




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    TooCool, Salty Dog, Ice24 and 1 others like this.

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    All Star Dana's Avatar




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    Add me to the list of people that have a problem with Kessel's actions. You can't go around swinging your stick like that. Doesn't excuse what Scott did, because that was a punk move too.

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