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Thread: Jonathan Bernier traded to Toronto, fights, pulls a Quick on a dump in.

  1. #491
    jt
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMonger View Post
    I fail to see how what happened in the 90s is relevant here. Different era.
    I don't think eras matter. The acts were the same then as they are now...and "the code" is the same now as it was then.

    To all the Kessel supporters: At what height of the opponent does it become worse for Kessel to do what he did? Is it still OK if the guy is only an inch taller? What if he's shorter but heavier? Is it cool if Kessel swings at his body? Arms? Head? The answer to the latter is obvious, but where's the line?
    The line is that goons don't go after high scorers. Unless the goon is a punk, in which case I give the high scorer license to protect himself the only way he can to avoid getting killed.

    The argument that you can use your stick as a weapon because someone is taller is asinine. That means Cammi has the freedom to swing away at anyone who's trying to fight him... even if the highest point he could reach is the other players shins.
    I agree. And I don't make that argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by FishMonger View Post
    I don't know how I would react either, but I think in the NHL it's different. Fights are an expected part of the game. That's not the case in a league I would play in (not sure about you). I find that to be a key factor to whether Scott or Kessler is more of a wienie in this case.
    No, fights between fighters are an expected part of the game. Fights between goons and high scorers are NOT an expected part of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Conie View Post
    LOL at this guys attempt to justify yesterdays actions with 90's hockey.
    The code is the code regardless of whether it was 90s hockey or 10s hockey.

    Quote Originally Posted by RagBone View Post
    To everyone who is saying, "Oh, that spear hardly touched him."

    You're all full of it. The very action of a spear is sufficient to receive a match penalty. Even if no contact is made. It's in the rules that way for a reason. It's probably the most dangerous thing you can do on the ice.

    To do it while the target is tied up in an altercation is beyond scumbag low. Kessel should get at last 10 games.
    So it's awesome for Scott to go after a guy a foot shorter than he is who can't fight for ****. But for Kessel to defend himself the only way possible is scumbag. So in your NHL, goons would rule, eh? That reminds me of why I hated 70s hockey and loved hockey without all that goon nonsense.

  2. #492
    jt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Add me to the list of people that have a problem with Kessel's actions. You can't go around swinging your stick like that. Doesn't excuse what Scott did, because that was a punk move too.
    So what's Kessel supposed to do? Fight a goon who's a foot taller than him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    So it's awesome for Scott to go after a guy a foot shorter than he is who can't fight for ****. But for Kessel to defend himself the only way possible is scumbag. So in your NHL, goons would rule, eh? That reminds me of why I hated 70s hockey and loved hockey without all that goon nonsense.
    Where to start? Where to start? I guess at the beginning.

    Please show me where I said it is awesome for Scott to do this. That's right. I never did. So shut up. Don't use my non words to make your own point (which is asinine BTW). Kessel was justified? Pshaw. Don't make me laugh.

    How exactly is Kessel slashing and spearing while the other guy is tied up with another player or official even remotely classified as "defending himself?" That's right. It's not and it can't be. The only thing it IS, is a scumbag attempt at retribution. Plain and simple.

    Did Kessel make a spearing motion towards Scott? Yes he did., So he is guilty of spearing ACCORDING TO THE RULE BOOK. To do it at all is wrong and should be punished. To do it while the player was otherwise occupied is scumbaggery at it's worst.

    Scott will get his. If he continues to play with his attitude unadjusted he will get taken out and his teammates will, I suspect, be glad to see it happen. His goonery just makes them targets, and they CAN'T like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    So what's Kessel supposed to do? Fight a goon who's a foot taller than him?
    Actually, I thought it would've been funny if he just ran away and had Scott chase him all over the ice.
    jt likes this.

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    I'll side in the Kessel went way out of bounds crowd.
    Scott was a goon in every sense of the word for what he did but I fail to see how what he was going after was any different than what McSorely was trying to do when he took Gilmore's head off in 93. Granted that was playoffs vs preseason but team wise the purpose and reactions are the same. I have to think that Buffalo had been talking about getting team tough and thats what let to Scott seeing the opportunity and taking it.

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    I saw Kessel's hand go toward Scott first so he started it. My Dad is bigger than your Dad.

  7. #497
    I revoke Man Cards FishMonger's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    I don't think eras matter. The acts were the same then as they are now...and "the code" is the same now as it was then.



    The line is that goons don't go after high scorers. Unless the goon is a punk, in which case I give the high scorer license to protect himself the only way he can to avoid getting killed.



    I agree. And I don't make that argument.



    No, fights between fighters are an expected part of the game. Fights between goons and high scorers are NOT an expected part of the game.



    The code is the code regardless of whether it was 90s hockey or 10s hockey.



    So it's awesome for Scott to go after a guy a foot shorter than he is who can't fight for ****. But for Kessel to defend himself the only way possible is scumbag. So in your NHL, goons would rule, eh? That reminds me of why I hated 70s hockey and loved hockey without all that goon nonsense.
    I think what it comes down to is, despite Scott being a d-bag for going after Kessel, I don't see taking 2-handers at a subdued guy as defending ones self. Nor spearing, regardless of how "'light' the 'tap' was.

    If Scott breaks 'the code' for going after a star player, doesn't Kessel break 'the code' for going after a guy who's already engaged? The argument I've heard elsewhere (and to a lesser extent here) is that "he started it" which reminds me of what children say to justify their bad behavior. I just cannot buy that as an excuse.

    On that note, I've decided on my desired punishment for both: Kessel needs a timeout with a dunce cap on. Scott needs to write "I will not go after star players" 1000 times on a chalk board. Then they have to sit next to each other the entire day without incident, and only after that can they go out and play again.

    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    So what's Kessel supposed to do? Fight a goon who's a foot taller than him?
    I find the proximity of this post to your other post about not making an argument based on height a bit amusing. I know they're not exactly the same, but you must admit it is kinda funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by not-mike View Post
    Actually, I thought it would've been funny if he just ran away and had Scott chase him all over the ice.
    I immediately thought of Yakety Sax. I think that would have worked perfectly if that could have been played in the background.
    Last edited by FishMonger; September 24th, 2013 at 09:22 AM.

  8. #498
    All Star Dana's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    So what's Kessel supposed to do? Fight a goon who's a foot taller than him?
    First, Carlyle was a moron for putting him out there. The whole tv time-out after the Devane/Tropp fight, Scott was on the ice, going at it verbally with the Leafs bench. So the idea that putting Kessel out there to line-up against Scott to defuse the situation was a dumb one. I know Toronto's other enforcer types weren't dressed, but then line up a bigger d-man on the wing or something instead of Kessel.

    Turtling is frowned upon but I think it would have been acceptable in this case. Skating away also would have been a better idea. I was reading a few interesting comments by ome Leafs fans this morning, getting away from all the Scott is a lunkhead posts and maybe because the puck might not have been dropped Clarkson should appeal comments. A few of them have said that they have noticed agitators from other teams going at Kessel this preseason, playing him physical, and he has been hacking and slashing in self-defense. So they were complaining that other teams have now found a way to get Kessel off his game and get him spending more time in the box.

    I think Kessel is going to get some sort of suspension here. Had it been one swing, he might have gotten off with a fine. But he took another slash when Scott was tied up with other guys, that is a no no. So then he dropped the gloves, fought some one, picked up a stick and a 2nd time attempted to use it as a weapon with the attempted spear, again when Scott was tied up, this time with a linesman. No, that spear wasn't going to hurt, but it was the 2nd time he attempted to use it as a weapon against a player who was tied up with others and that is what most people have a problem with.

  9. #499
    1st Scoring Line Salty Dog's Avatar




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    jt, TooCool and FishMonger like this.

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    Let's hug it out, bitch! NastiMarvasti's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    So what's Kessel supposed to do? Fight a goon who's a foot taller than him?
    Maybe I need to watch it again, but didn't Kessel take an extra swing or two AFTER Scott was tangled with someone else?

    Regardless, the whole code thing doesn't hold water for me. He could have turtled or skated away if he couldn't hold his own. If it's really important, then it should be a written rule. It's why I hated the Avery rule.
    Last edited by NastiMarvasti; September 24th, 2013 at 11:07 AM.

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