Thread: Kovalchuk is a NJ Devil. Now, get over it already.

I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if this has been covered.

Don't mean to go off on a tangent but, how about a Kings G going to Waddell? Pavelec and Hedberg aren't doing it. Atlanta has zilch for G's in their farm.

I think we all agree that if a G is going to Waddell the only one it could possibly be would be Ersberg.

That's a gamble. EE is partially NHL tested (has played, but, never a full 82 game season). So, one can only judge him by what he's done. He could be elite. Elite goalies are totally impossible to identify until they are put into NHL game situations.

Bernier...no way. DL's potential loss if JB turned elite would be unrecoverable.

I mean, what does Waddell really expect for a 25 or so game rental of Kovi? If he had moved him months ago he'd be getting a whole lot more in return. But, now?????

Originally Posted by Winsomemore

I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if this has been covered.

Lightweight.

Don't mean to go off on a tangent but, how about a Kings G going to Waddell? Pavelec and Hedberg aren't doing it. Atlanta has zilch for G's in their farm.

I think we all agree that if a G is going to Waddell the only one it could possibly be would be Ersberg.

That's a gamble. EE is partially NHL tested (has played, but, never a full 82 game season). So, one can only judge him by what he's done. He could be elite. Elite goalies are totally impossible to identify until they are put into NHL game situations.

Bernier...no way. DL's potential loss if JB turned elite would be unrecoverable.

I mean, what does Waddell really expect for a 25 or so game rental of Kovi? If he had moved him months ago he'd be getting a whole lot more in return. But, now?????

I can't imagine anyone being seriously interested in Ersberg. He's been ok but he's small and just hasn't played enough to trade anything substantial for him.

I think Waddell expects what the market has to offer and I think that's a fair amount. I would be stunned if he couldn't get a package equal to Hossa and pretty surprised if he couldn't get a better one.

I know there's plenty of disagreement, but I think the Armstrong + Christensen + Esposito + a 1st was alot for Hossa. Just because none of those guys worked out, doesn't mean they weren't alot of talent at the time (which I think they were).

Originally Posted by jt

Waddell has said he won't allow a team to talk with Kovalchuk until a deal is done and is contingent on discussions (not an extension). We'll see if he sticks to that, but that's what he's said.

And what can we learn from this;

a) Waddell knows that Kovi is going to test the market regardless to possibly drive up his value thus possibly turning off a potential partner or limiting the return

or

b) Thinks that Kovi will only sign with a handfull of teams that may or may not be the trading partner that offers him the best deal,

or

c) simply wants a deal in place regardless of what the trading partner can do with Kovi.

I am sure that there are more than these options and I tend to think it is B, as I think any smart player given the right amount of money will sign without testing free agency. IE; Team 2nd place trades for him only if he signs a 10m/ year for 10 years....how could he pass that up.

For some reason Waddell thinks his return is being limited by allowing teams to negotiate with Kovi. It seems that in a lot of ways he could get more if the trading partner could sign him. Obviously he feels that he may get more not allowing it.

As we all know, this can change.

EDIT: I don't think I understand a deal being contingent on discussions. If he is traded, there will obviously be discussions after the trade. What part of a "discussion" could warrant a contingency? Is that saying "you can talk to him, and feel it out with what he wants?"

Originally Posted by jt

I think Waddell expects what the market has to offer and I think that's a fair amount. I would be stunned if he couldn't get a package equal to Hossa and pretty surprised if he couldn't get a better one.

I know there's plenty of disagreement, but I think the Armstrong + Christensen + Esposito + a 1st was alot for Hossa. Just because none of those guys worked out, doesn't mean they weren't alot of talent at the time (which I think they were).

That deal was overpayment at the time in my book as well, and I will never forget Pierre McGuire's reponse to it and how he thought it was an awefull trade for the Pens.

Originally Posted by jt

Lightweight.

Measuring anyone's ability to keep up with a 50+ page thread against yours, is like measuring any young defenseman's ability against Doughty's.

Originally Posted by jt

Lightweight.

lol!

Originally Posted by jt

can't imagine anyone being seriously interested in Ersberg. He's been ok but he's small and just hasn't played enough to trade anything substantial for him.

I think Waddell expects what the market has to offer and I think that's a fair amount. I would be stunned if he couldn't get a package equal to Hossa and pretty surprised if he couldn't get a better one.

I know there's plenty of disagreement, but I think the Armstrong + Christensen + Esposito + a 1st was alot for Hossa. Just because none of those guys worked out, doesn't mean they weren't alot of talent at the time (which I think they were).

It all depends on who the other GM's involved in the trade talks are offering. It seems like it's taking Waddell a long time to move Kovi. I take that to be an indication that none of them are willing to give Waddell anything more than 25-30 games worth of talent, otherwise, Kovi would already be moved.

Originally Posted by Winsomemore

It all depends on who the other GM's involved in the trade talks are offering. It seems like it's taking Waddell a long time to move Kovi. I take that to be an indication that none of them are willing to give Waddell anything more than 25-30 games worth of talent, otherwise, Kovi would already be moved.

Actually, I'd be a little surprised if he was moved before the Olympics. Keep in mind that not only do teams have to pay him during the Olympics but that counts against the cap AND there's a chance he'll get hurt there. What if a team trades for him today and then he goes and breaks an ankle in the Olympics? It's one thing for that to happen in a game he plays for YOU, it's entirely different if it happens in the Olympics.

Also, GMs almost always get more by waiting. If you were a GM who wanted him, would you make your best offer today knowing that other GMs aren't? And if you're Waddell, do you take someone's offer today knowing the offers will probably go up in 4 weeks?

Have you read the account of Waddell trading Hossa? Shero wasn't going to include both Armstrong and Christensen and Waddell was about to trade Hossa to Montreal when Shero finally caved and the deal was done. You know when that happened? Less than 3 minutes before the trade deadline: What's it like on trade deadline day? Six GMs share their war stories - ESPN.

Originally Posted by jt

Also, GMs almost always get more by waiting.

Worked out well with Rob Blake.

Originally Posted by VCRW

I share jt's view that the two sides of this statement are synonymous. Both conditions are necessary and definitely not mutually exclusive.

i agree with both of you, with the caveat being that the onus is now on the players... and this is that one part of teh Deanspeak i've taken down with the Kool-Aid - that it doesn't matter WHO he brings in, unless THESE guys can get the job done...

you guys know the yadda yadda part.