Thread: Kovalchuk is a NJ Devil. Now, get over it already.

So Matt touches on it at the end:

HockeyBuzz.com - Matthew Barry - Kings Blow 8th 2-Goal Lead, But Win Again 3-2

The Hartnell rumblings have started again:

Originally Posted by CBGB

The Philadelphia Rumor – the last time I mentioned this, Flyers fans pasted me for months. So, why not do it again? It’s Hartnell again, folks. Could it be a straight up Hartnell for Brown? The obvious question: Why trade your captain, who is cheap, and hits like a freight train? Answer: Maybe there’s something going on behind the scenes of these two players that we don’t know about??? The Flyers certainly showed a fine effort against the Penguins tonight, didn’t they?

That and the fact that some of the players (Hartnell included) have had issues in the past:

Do the Philadelphia Flyers' Party Habits Need To Be Put on Ice? | Bleacher Report

And then a disagreement between Richards and Pronger:

Chris Pronger Commits Mutiny Against Mike Richards | PuckUpdate :: The Hockey Blog

And then he comments that it isnt Richards:

Pronger denies rift in Flyers' locker room - Woodstock Sentinel Review - Ontario, CA

Originally Posted by Pronger

The fact is, at the end of the day, there's 20 guys in the locker room and there's a lot more to the leadership group than just him. It's an awful lot to put on his shoulders.

They cut the coach, and then get stomped, win a game, and get stomped again.

Time for them to shake things up.

And then Germican posted this Gem:

http://thephillyfour.com/2009/12/aff...er-room-split/

Nope, no way do I give up Brown, Simmonds, Schenn, Bernier, Teubert or Hickey at this point.

I'd include Kopitar and Johnson in a deal long before I would consider any of the other prized assets, but Kovalchuk isn't the answer for this organization.

The only thing the Kings need is for Brown and Kopitar to figure it out, while the rest of the TRUE core of the organization develops.

The Kings, as well as they have been playing, are laying ground work the properly developed influx of their real talent base, which is largely at the CHL/AHL level now.

No sense getting ahead of ourselves. Let Doughty, Simmonds, Kopitar, Brown and Greene get the experience necessary to guide the kids in naturally instead of forcing to fill holes that really don't need to be filled yet.

I wouldn't even remotely consider a deal like this until the Kings have been in the playoffs at least once.

Now, signing Kovalchuk as a free agent, that's an entirely diferrent matter.

Originally Posted by Mondo Blando

Nope, no way do I give up Brown, Simmonds, Schenn, Bernier, Teubert or Hickey at this point.

I'd include Kopitar and Johnson in a deal long before I would consider any of the other prized assets, but Kovalchuk isn't the answer for this organization.

The only thing the Kings need is for Brown and Kopitar to figure it out, while the rest of the TRUE core of the organization develops.

The Kings, as well as they have been playing, are laying ground work the properly developed influx of their real talent base, which is largely at the CHL/AHL level now.

No sense getting ahead of ourselves. Let Doughty, Simmonds, Kopitar, Brown and Greene get the experience necessary to guide the kids in naturally instead of forcing to fill holes that really don't need to be filled yet.

I wouldn't even remotely consider a deal like this until the Kings have been in the playoffs at least once.

Now, signing Kovalchuk as a free agent, that's an entirely diferrent matter.

Are you saying you'd trade Kopitar before you'd trade Brown? If so you are crack.

Originally Posted by eyesk8r

Are you saying you'd trade Kopitar before you'd trade Brown? If so you are crack.

In a deal for an elite scorer, yes, I would - In a heartbeat that's inside of a New York minute, and I'd make it a double-header Sunday...

Brown is more important to this team than Anze, which is why I get so frustrated with his slow boat to China realization that he can be a dominant force without stubbornly trying to be a sniper.

So you'd rather trade a playmaking center, one that could potentially set up Kovi, and keep an over rated RW, who doesn't seem to have the heart or desire to fight or try and spark his team, that likes to hit and has a pretty low shooting percentage...please explain your logic to me, because personally, I see Wayne Simmonds being a Dustin Brown replacement.

Originally Posted by jt

A buddy of mine in Atlanta says his real problem isn't that he takes games off, it's that he outright loses interest in hockey for stretches. It usually happens after January when the Thrashers have been eliminated but it's happened before then, and even the season they were competing so hard for the playoffs, he didn't work as hard as he should have.

This absolutely describes the Kovalchuk of 3-4 seasons ago. Ever since stepping up to take a leadership role, he, and the whole team, have played with a spark notably absent in the organization before. I'm not going to assume that he can't regress, but with the way he has approached his captaincy, as well as the greater role he's taken within Team Russia hockey, I believe he has matured greatly from THAT player.

Originally Posted by jt

I'd say it would take a little more but if that's the model, the cost would be something like Brown, Moller, Teubert, and a 1st.

Can't say what Waddell would be thinking but I have to believe Simmonds would be much higher on his list than Moller or Teubert. Additionally with Teubert, how much of a project he may be could make him unattractive to the Thrashers, who are already struggling with their current hulking nasty d-man project in Boris Valabik. I'm just not sure Lombardi would be willing to part with the assets I believe Atlanta will want in return. I also believe that, unlike the Hossa deal, Waddell has a much clearer vision and direction for what he'll want in return with the core he has in place.

I dont buy it. Maybe next year.

Originally Posted by Mondo Blando

Brown is more important to this team than Anze, which is why I get so frustrated with his slow boat to China realization that he can be a dominant force without stubbornly trying to be a sniper.

You're putting a lot of faith in his ability to put it all together some day. He shows flashes, but then regresses. One step forward, two steps back. He ain't a wide-eyed 18 any more and the clock is beginning to tick louder.

Originally Posted by eyesk8r

So you'd rather trade a playmaking center, one that could potentially set up Kovi, and keep an over rated RW, who doesn't seem to have the heart or desire to fight or try and spark his team, that likes to hit and has a pretty low shooting percentage...please explain your logic to me, because personally, I see Wayne Simmonds being a Dustin Brown replacement.

Okay,

First, Kopitar is not a playmaker. He is a finisher who collects the bulk of his assists on the PP, which is perfectly fine.

As a scorer, and I say this knowing full well that some will point to his hot start and assume that somehow I am forgetting or denying it, he can be improved upon.

Anze Kopitar is not the sort of player who will fight thru checks, demand double teams, and make his linemates more effective - he is the opposite. He needs to be set up to use his talents.

You can get a glimpse of this by studying the PP. Anze is just an adequate first PP unit center - nothing all that special by any means. At 5 on 5, he is far more effective reading plays and capitalizing on the work that others do to get him open and in good scoring position.

If we accept Kopitar as merely a pure scorer, you have to see that there are better options for that role. Not too many better ones, but there are more prolific options out there.

Now Brown, for all the bitching I do about him, has a far more demanding role. No, he doesn't have great hands, and no, he doesn't think the game all that well.

But he does have the ability to take over entire shifts with effort alone. Tonight was a great example - both goals were scored by Dustin reading the play and heading straight up ice, not stopping to think - just reacting.

You can see just how much better the Kings are when Dustin is on his game. It's a sad truth that his good games are so few and far between, but he has the wheels and the pure physicality to break down the opponents. Not only to score, but to impose his will.

The problem with Dustin is that he doesn't want to play that kind of game - he fashions himself as a sniper. Why he gets that F-3 role on his lines is beyond me - it limits his best assets.

I harp on the crap that he pulls not because I dislike him, but rather because I see what he can do, and it frustrates the **** out of me that he just won't do it all that often. He could actually lead this team not just with his off-ice dedication and personality, but he could physically drag this team into a more playoff oriented style that won't just result in a series of squeaked out victories, but rather as a dominant force that the opposition can scheme against, but cannot stop.

You can defend against a pure scorer, but you can't hide from a bulldozer.

All Brown has to do is adopt the grinder mindset and give up all the dangling and 600 foot wrist shots. If Brown can max out his potential, he is just far more valuable to the team.

Now, if you want to take bets as to if he can actually do it, well, that is another issue as well. I am more than willing to give him the next couple of years to try and figure it out.