These guys are credible. What they report may not end up happening, but is/was being discussed. Sometimes it doesn't play out- Vinny, Jack to Russia, etc. These 3 do have real sources, I'm guessing they are mostly former players who are now dressed up as agents, etc.
But hey, unless it's a dip#%#% package for Kovalchuk like the Pittsburgh one was for Hossa*- This ain't gonna happen with the Kings, nor will it happen with anyone else any time soon- Waddell is going to hold out until the last 30 seconds of the trade deadline, it's in his best interests to do so because this is a RENTAL.
*I know, It seemed like a good idea at the time. Pittsburgh knew their prospects well- does DL?
I've had guys like that on my teams before, and no one likes them. Surprising, I know.
What I'm afraid of that the Kings might put together a package, say they include those players like Richardson or Simmonds for Kovulchuck. They need to get rid of dead weight right now if they are going to make a move and that include some vets who are maybe on the last year of their contract.
I look at a guy like Brian Campbell or Stephane Robidas and think that window never REALLY closes. I know what you mean and if I HAD to pick a side, I'd agree with you. But there are too many Dmen who develop at ~25 (Campbell was 27 and Robidas is 32). At this point, I'd say Johnson is more likely to be the next Joe Corvo than the next, I don't know...Dan Boyle so many projected him to be.I think that window has now closed. His ceiling is second pairing. There are parts of his game that are seriously lacking, and barring there being a change in his head or the Kings getting someone to play with him that can help and teach him game in and game out, he's never going to get there either.
Maybe, but like I said, there's plenty of top pairing Dmen out there who were tutored by, well, nobody - at least nobody good. Johnson may have been someone who wasn't capable of developing without being tutored, but I think he's followed the path he was likely to follow whether he'd played with Blake and O'Donnell or MacInnis, Stevens, or Bobby Orr. His mentality and overall style of play just seem to me to scream 2nd pairing Dman. I said it when DL traded for him (remember me not liking that trade?) and I still think it today. Given Gleason's injuries, we'll never know.Chris Pronger is a #1 defenseman in this league not because of what happened in Hartford, but because he went to the blues and spent a good chunk of his early career playing with a Hall of Fame defenseman.
Anyway...to me, a "ceiling" of #4/5 Dman isn't a "2nd pairing" Dman (#3/4 Dman would be that) and that's all I was disagreeing with you on. I don't think we really disagree on the ceiliing of his play, just the label to give him.
Definitely agree.(Personally, I don't think DL could possibly feel for sure at this point that Quick is the guy based on the limited amount of games we've seen... but for this scenario, we are assuming he has made this judgment call, which I'm fine with).
Absolutely agree.It gets hazy though, even in scenario-land, when you say "If you had to give up Bernier (knowing Quick is my guy) to get the Kings to the Conference Finals this year, would you?" If I had a crystal ball and was guaranteed to get past the first two rounds... sure. But even if adding Kovalchuk on paper gave me the look of a conference finals team... we could still fall short, losing in the first or second round or even missing the playoffs altogether.
Totally and completely agree.Now, I just gave up my most valuable blue-chip prospect (unless you'd put Schenn at #1, but you get my point) for a RENTAL that didn't get me the desired return I was hoping for.
Maybe, we'll see in 5 yrs when Bernier is (or isn't) a dominant #1 goalie.Sure, that's part of sports. There's a bit of gamble in every move you make. But the risk is far far too great.
Just for the sake of our crystal balling, what type of prospect do you think you could get for him? I look at a guy like Tukka Rask and see that he could only get the Leafs Andrew Raycroft. Goalie prospects are SUCH a crapshoot that I don't see them being all that valuable in trade.If I'm set on trading Bernier, I can likely get an NHL-ready prospect who I'll have for the next 3+ years as well as another prospect/pick or two that will continue to strengthen the foundation I have built, AND give me more tradeable assets for when this rental situation makes sense in a year or two.
I pretty much agree with you on this and I think my posts in this thread are consistent on that point. But if this and if that (Quick is the man, Moller isn't, Hickey isn't developing well, or JJ has a low ceiling - basically DL doesn't value some of these prospects as much as my fellow LGKers do), well then it's alot more realistic.I'm not against being buyers at the deadline and using some of our wealth of second/third-tier prospects to land someone (Whitney, as many have brought up, seems like a great fit/price), but Kovalchuk? I can't even in the most optimistic stretches of my mind figure a trade that lands him here where we don't give up too much.
Remember back when losing Lehoux to waivers was a serious mismanagement of assets and would bite them in the ass? And trading Aulin...and Anshakov...and all these other superterrific prospects was such a horrible use of assets and those players were going to come back to haunt the Kings? Hmmmmmmm....
No matter the package -- if a few years from now Kovalchuk is still the best player in the deal and he comes here and does what Kovie does then it won't matter who DL gave up to get him.
The Fourth Period :: Los Angeles Kings :: Kings serious about Kovalchuk
"One well placed source told TFP last night Kings GM Dean Lombardi is traveling to Atlanta to not only scout the team but presumably speak with Waddell face-to-face."
Last edited by Kingsfan31; January 10th, 2010 at 09:14 AM.
In some ways I hope DL does trade for him because that probably means he's confident he IS the right guy. I think he probably isn't but I have enough faith in DL that if he trades for him, he probably is. If he does, I just hope he doesn't trade away too much.
I also wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that Moller played on the top line last night so Atlanta could see him in action there.
Is Kovalchuk as a rental what we want? Is it what we need right now?
I'm SOOO disgusted when I see all the trades that have gone down at the deadline for players who come in, don't really deliver too much in their couple of months, then go on their merry way once summer rolls around. Meanwhile the team who traded away picks and prospects gets left with nothing.
I don't want to see this happen to the Kings this year. We have a great base of players, some guys who can maybe step in this summer, and if we sign a couple of decent UFAs in the offseason, we should be ready to make a good playoff push.
This team with Kovi is one thing. This team, plus Kovi, minus what you would have to give up to get him, I'm not sure where that leaves us.
Last edited by Sleestak; January 10th, 2010 at 12:09 PM.