Thread: Kovalchuk is a NJ Devil. Now, get over it already.

Originally Posted by petey

No he is not. The only credible source on TSN is Bob Mackenzie. That is it.

The biggest story Dreger has broke in recent memory was Paul Kelly getting fired- about a week before it happened.

Originally Posted by santiclaws

LeBrun said today on the hotstove during HNIC the Kings are expected to make a strong push for Kovy.

He was the first to report that the Kings were interested in Ryan Smyth- all the way back in March

These guys are credible. What they report may not end up happening, but is/was being discussed. Sometimes it doesn't play out- Vinny, Jack to Russia, etc. These 3 do have real sources, I'm guessing they are mostly former players who are now dressed up as agents, etc.

Luc Robitaille?

But hey, unless it's a dip#%#% package for Kovalchuk like the Pittsburgh one was for Hossa*- This ain't gonna happen with the Kings, nor will it happen with anyone else any time soon- Waddell is going to hold out until the last 30 seconds of the trade deadline, it's in his best interests to do so because this is a RENTAL.

*I know, It seemed like a good idea at the time. Pittsburgh knew their prospects well- does DL?

Originally Posted by Iron Duke

Kovalchuk throws his head back and tosses his stick literally 10 feet into the air. Now there's frustration, and then there's showing up your teammates, which is unacceptable to begin with, but from a CAPTAIN? Very disappointed.

About 3 weeks ago, when this thread started, I mentioned I didn't like his demeanor towards his team mates in that 7-0 win against the Kings. After a commercial break, the camera showed him yelling at someone else on the bench and pointing out to the ice "I was right there! I was right there!"

I've had guys like that on my teams before, and no one likes them. Surprising, I know.

What I'm afraid of that the Kings might put together a package, say they include those players like Richardson or Simmonds for Kovulchuck. They need to get rid of dead weight right now if they are going to make a move and that include some vets who are maybe on the last year of their contract.

Originally Posted by Birdman

I think based on who he's been paired with early in his career, and who he is getting paired with now, he's never going to truly get to his ceiling, which should have been as a top pairing defenseman.

That's a fair point and I agree that playing with a great tutor can be tremendously valuable, but why is Johnson different than, say, Bouwmeester? He's a top pairing Dman and he's never been tutored by a MacInnis type.

I think that window has now closed. His ceiling is second pairing. There are parts of his game that are seriously lacking, and barring there being a change in his head or the Kings getting someone to play with him that can help and teach him game in and game out, he's never going to get there either.

I look at a guy like Brian Campbell or Stephane Robidas and think that window never REALLY closes. I know what you mean and if I HAD to pick a side, I'd agree with you. But there are too many Dmen who develop at ~25 (Campbell was 27 and Robidas is 32). At this point, I'd say Johnson is more likely to be the next Joe Corvo than the next, I don't know...Dan Boyle so many projected him to be.

Chris Pronger is a #1 defenseman in this league not because of what happened in Hartford, but because he went to the blues and spent a good chunk of his early career playing with a Hall of Fame defenseman.

Maybe, but like I said, there's plenty of top pairing Dmen out there who were tutored by, well, nobody - at least nobody good. Johnson may have been someone who wasn't capable of developing without being tutored, but I think he's followed the path he was likely to follow whether he'd played with Blake and O'Donnell or MacInnis, Stevens, or Bobby Orr. His mentality and overall style of play just seem to me to scream 2nd pairing Dman. I said it when DL traded for him (remember me not liking that trade?) and I still think it today. Given Gleason's injuries, we'll never know.

Anyway...to me, a "ceiling" of #4/5 Dman isn't a "2nd pairing" Dman (#3/4 Dman would be that) and that's all I was disagreeing with you on. I don't think we really disagree on the ceiliing of his play, just the label to give him.

Originally Posted by USCKingsFan31

You've brought this up a few times in this thread, and it is an extremely valid point; if DL believes that Quick is the guy, it makes perfect sense to trade Bernier. His trade value is extremely high considering where he was drafted, his scouting report, and the season he's having in the AHL this year.

Agreed.

(Personally, I don't think DL could possibly feel for sure at this point that Quick is the guy based on the limited amount of games we've seen... but for this scenario, we are assuming he has made this judgment call, which I'm fine with).

Definitely agree.

It gets hazy though, even in scenario-land, when you say "If you had to give up Bernier (knowing Quick is my guy) to get the Kings to the Conference Finals this year, would you?" If I had a crystal ball and was guaranteed to get past the first two rounds... sure. But even if adding Kovalchuk on paper gave me the look of a conference finals team... we could still fall short, losing in the first or second round or even missing the playoffs altogether.

Absolutely agree.

Now, I just gave up my most valuable blue-chip prospect (unless you'd put Schenn at #1, but you get my point) for a RENTAL that didn't get me the desired return I was hoping for.

Totally and completely agree.

Sure, that's part of sports. There's a bit of gamble in every move you make. But the risk is far far too great.

Maybe, we'll see in 5 yrs when Bernier is (or isn't) a dominant #1 goalie.

If I'm set on trading Bernier, I can likely get an NHL-ready prospect who I'll have for the next 3+ years as well as another prospect/pick or two that will continue to strengthen the foundation I have built, AND give me more tradeable assets for when this rental situation makes sense in a year or two.

Just for the sake of our crystal balling, what type of prospect do you think you could get for him? I look at a guy like Tukka Rask and see that he could only get the Leafs Andrew Raycroft. Goalie prospects are SUCH a crapshoot that I don't see them being all that valuable in trade.

I'm not against being buyers at the deadline and using some of our wealth of second/third-tier prospects to land someone (Whitney, as many have brought up, seems like a great fit/price), but Kovalchuk? I can't even in the most optimistic stretches of my mind figure a trade that lands him here where we don't give up too much.

I pretty much agree with you on this and I think my posts in this thread are consistent on that point. But if this and if that (Quick is the man, Moller isn't, Hickey isn't developing well, or JJ has a low ceiling - basically DL doesn't value some of these prospects as much as my fellow LGKers do), well then it's alot more realistic.

Remember back when losing Lehoux to waivers was a serious mismanagement of assets and would bite them in the ass? And trading Aulin...and Anshakov...and all these other superterrific prospects was such a horrible use of assets and those players were going to come back to haunt the Kings? Hmmmmmmm....

No matter the package -- if a few years from now Kovalchuk is still the best player in the deal and he comes here and does what Kovie does then it won't matter who DL gave up to get him.

The Fourth Period :: Los Angeles Kings :: Kings serious about Kovalchuk

"One well placed source told TFP last night Kings GM Dean Lombardi is traveling to Atlanta to not only scout the team but presumably speak with Waddell face-to-face."

Originally Posted by Youngblood

No matter the package -- if a few years from now Kovalchuk is still the best player in the deal and he comes here and does what Kovie does then it won't matter who DL gave up to get him.

What if the Kings trade the next Jovanovski plus Gagner plus Brown plus Weekes plus a 1st rounder and Bure, I mean Kovalchuk "leads" the Kings to a SCF loss and that's it?

Then would it matter?

Originally Posted by Kingsfan31

The Fourth Period :: Los Angeles Kings :: Kings serious about Kovalchuk

"One well placed source told TFP last night Kings GM Dean Lombardi is traveling to Atlanta to not only scout the team but presumably speak with Waddell face-to-face."

I'm sure DL is serious about getting a rental Kovalchuk but it's got to be at the right price and he's got to meet with Kovalchuk to make sure he's the "right" guy.

In some ways I hope DL does trade for him because that probably means he's confident he IS the right guy. I think he probably isn't but I have enough faith in DL that if he trades for him, he probably is. If he does, I just hope he doesn't trade away too much.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that Moller played on the top line last night so Atlanta could see him in action there.