Thread: Kovalchuk is a NJ Devil. Now, get over it already.

Originally Posted by santiclaws

Are you saying that a team with Kovalchuk will never win the Cup?

Good point and that's what I said - but it's not what I meant.

What I mean is that a team with Kovalchuk earning ~20% of his team's cap for 8 yrs won't win the Cup. In that respect, he's like Thornton who I firmly believe will never win a Cup until he's a 2nd liner (or 3rd or 4th liner) and isn't the heart of his team making a fortune.

But I also said Ray Whitney and Cory Stillman wouldn't ever win Cups so what the hell do I know...?

Originally Posted by jt

Good point and that's what I said - but it's not what I meant.

What I mean is that a team with Kovalchuk earning ~20% of his team's cap for 8 yrs won't win the Cup. In that respect, he's like Thornton who I firmly believe will never win a Cup until he's a 2nd liner (or 3rd or 4th liner) and isn't the heart of his team making a fortune.

But I also said Ray Whitney and Cory Stillman wouldn't ever win Cups so what the hell do I know...?

I think it is a bit early to condemn Kovy as "that kind of player." He has played for a crappy team with little to play for year after year and has been in one playoff series. He's played pretty well for Russia. IF Brown and Kopitar and Doughty and Johnson and Qiuck/Bernier work out like they should, Kovy would be a pretty damn good complementary piece. The guy making the most dough doesn't necessarily have to be your "glue" if you've got enough other "glue" guys around.

Originally Posted by jt

Three yrs ago I would have laughed at myself saying this, but a guy like Ray Whitney or Cory Stillman.

I disagree that it's all that important to have that kind of gamebreaker, especially one who is so one-dimensional and flat-out loses interest in playing his best for months at a time. That's fine for a guy like Frolov who you can dump onto the 3rd line, but it doesn't work for a guy you're paying $9M to.

Just look at the Devils and Sabres. They have no Kovalchuk-type gamebreakers. You could argue that Elias WAS, but he sure isn't anymore. Yeah, they've got great goaltending, but that's ok - the Kings need that level of goaltending too (as do most Cup winners).

If Kovalchuk can score 50 goals while playing un-interested hockey for months at a time, I'd take him any day. Imagine what he can do in the playoffs when he gets interested.

Lombardi is in a tough position right now. Especially given the most recent level of commitment (readiness at game time) with the current players during this home stand. If he makes a move for a game breaker like Kovy, he risks giving these guys a crutch.

DL must be very very sure these players are ready for this guy. This team is on the verge of elite status. A crutch, a guy that everyone can stand around and watch like an all star game, can ruin the past three years of development.

If he doesn't get him, he risks having to play against him for 8 or 9 years and maybe facing him in the playoffs depending upon the team that signs K.

My instincts are to try and get him and go for it. But I don't know Kovy. I don't know if the captaincy is a "stars" perk or something he truly deserves and uses. I trust DL to find out about him and make the decision. It's the kind of deal that keeps GM's up at night.

Originally Posted by santiclaws

I think it is a bit early to condemn Kovy as "that kind of player." He has played for a crappy team with little to play for year after year and has been in one playoff series. He's played pretty well for Russia. IF Brown and Kopitar and Doughty and Johnson and Qiuck/Bernier work out like they should, Kovy would be a pretty damn good complementary piece. The guy making the most dough doesn't necessarily have to be your "glue" if you've got enough other "glue" guys around.

Maybe, but at that salary you can't surround him with enough high end "glue" guys for very long...maybe 2 or 3 yrs and then you have to start trading them to stay under the cap.

All the people I know in Atlanta have complained about Kovalchuk every year since the lockout because he just gives up on the season. Don't get me wrong, I understand why: he sees it as a lost season and doesn't want to give it his all when he knows his team is going nowhere. But he also did it the year they went to the playoffs and that's just a bad bad sign. Even this year he's half-assing it too much and as much as fantasy geeks want to look at his eye-popping numbers, this ain't fantasy hockey and it takes more than offense to win the Cup.

Originally Posted by KingFanMGM

If Kovalchuk can score 50 goals while playing un-interested hockey for months at a time, I'd take him any day. Imagine what he can do in the playoffs when he gets interested.

This ain't fantasy hockey and it takes more than offense to win the Cup.

The problem with Kovalchuk is that he had that opportunity in the playoffs and what he did was decidedly unimaginative and uninteresting.

I think it will take too much to acquire him and/or sign him to take the risk that at the age of 27 (this April) he will magically "get it" and start playing with heart for a full season.

Originally Posted by DUC620

Lombardi is in a tough position right now. Especially given the most recent level of commitment (readiness at game time) with the current players during this home stand. If he makes a move for a game breaker like Kovy, he risks giving these guys a crutch.

Teams slump. Players go through bad stretches. Young players grown and learn (or not). These players need to figure out what it takes to win. DL made a great point in the offseason that teams like the Wings and Devils have been able to hand all that down from generation to generation, but there was a time when they didn't have it and guys like Yzerman, Lidstrom, Stevens, and Brodeur had to learn it. Some guys never will and only time will tell whether Brown, Kopitar, and the rest will or won't.

That said, you make a good point about whether this is the right time to add a 26 yr old Kovalchuk to a team that's trying to learn how to win - Kovalchuk has no clue himself so he just adds to that problem.

Originally Posted by jt

Teams slump. Players go through bad stretches. Young players grown and learn (or not). These players need to figure out what it takes to win. DL made a great point in the offseason that teams like the Wings and Devils have been able to hand all that down from generation to generation, but there was a time when they didn't have it and guys like Yzerman, Lidstrom, Stevens, and Brodeur had to learn it. Some guys never will and only time will tell whether Brown, Kopitar, and the rest will or won't.

That said, you make a good point about whether this is the right time to add a 26 yr old Kovalchuk to a team that's trying to learn how to win - Kovalchuk has no clue himself so he just adds to that problem.

I know we love our Kings and most of the guys on this team, but that doesn't mean any of them are the Superstar players that most EVERY team has had that wins a cup.

At some point, all these "assets" that DL has acquired have to come into play at some point.

And I really don't think judging IK on his 4 games of experience in the postseason is all that fair....

Originally Posted by jt

Just look at the Devils and Sabres. They have no Kovalchuk-type gamebreakers. You could argue that Elias WAS, but he sure isn't anymore. Yeah, they've got great goaltending, but that's ok - the Kings need that level of goaltending too (as do most Cup winners).

Since I'm somewhat of a newer fan (since 2002-2003,) I wouldn't know too much from their older teams even though they did win the cup in 02-03, lol...but saying they have no gamebreakers as in currently, I'd say Parise is definately getting up there, as for Buffalo, they had Drury on their team a few years ago and he was definately a gamebreaker. Now, I'd agree that they don't really have one.

Originally Posted by DotUKings

I know we love our Kings and most of the guys on this team, but that doesn't mean any of them are the Superstar players that most EVERY team has had that wins a cup.

I agree to an extent and that's DL's job to figure out. But at this point I think it's way too early to say they aren't and that DL needs to trade them to get other ones. IMO, that's a fantasy hockey mentality.

But go back and have a look at the Cup winners since the lockout - which ones have had these superstar players? The Pens? Yeah. The Wings? Well, sort of. Lidstrom was but as much as I respect Datsyuk and Zetterberg I don't think they're "superstars" like we're all thinking of Kovalchuk. The Ducks? No...well, MAYBE Pronger and Niedermayer. The Canes? Good lord no. Staal was the closest they had but no sane person would argue he was (or is) a "superstar".

At some point, all these "assets" that DL has acquired have to come into play at some point.

Again, I agree.

And I really don't think judging IK on his 4 games of experience in the postseason is all that fair....

I disagree. I think EVERY SINGLE GAME a player plays in the playoffs contributes to the judgment of that player...along with all the other games he plays in any crunch time situation. And the reality is that Kovalchuk gets a big fail in that department.

Originally Posted by Palffy3314

Since I'm somewhat of a newer fan (since 2002-2003,) I wouldn't know too much from their older teams even though they did win the cup in 02-03, lol...but saying they have no gamebreakers as in currently, I'd say Parise is definately getting up there, as for Buffalo, they had Drury on their team a few years ago and he was definately a gamebreaker. Now, I'd agree that they don't really have one.

Parise is sort of a gamebreaker but he's also a very solid all-around player that Kovalchuk isn't (and never will be).

And Drury has never ever ever been a gamebreaker. He's been a good, solid hockey player but are you honestly saying that a guy with a career high 37 goals (ONCE) and 69 points is a "gamebreaker"? By that standard Frolov was a gamebreaker...