Thread: Kovalchuk part V, The NHL Strikes Back, NHLPA files Grievance (All Discussion Here )

Originally Posted by gescom

again, the thrust of my argument has nothing to do with the Islanders other than that day - after that offer was "made" - to indicate that any hesitation, regardless of who it was... be it the Islanders, New Jersey, Salavataxfreetoplayinthemotherland Yulaevincomfort, or whomever, despite all indications pointing to "wanting" to play in Los Angeles, would have gotten a take a hike from me after ONE offer.

the defense here, shouldn't have to provide any proof. not one person (even Lombardi) other than the parties reportedly involved knew that offer was bogus until it had been made public well after the fact.

I think I get your point now.

So you are saying that because of the $ amount that would have been enough for you to walk away because of his contemplation in not taking the offer, and not wanting the Kings to spend that amount.

Which in a way I agree with you except for the fact the who (Islanders) does play a role. A huge one. He had already turned that money down from Atlanta. So if we are looking at the Trashers or Islanders making a $100M offer, it is a big difference between getting an offer from the Kings or New Jersey. There was no way to know at the time how much less money he would take to play in a better market or location. There comes a point where it is not just about the money.

Originally Posted by Riofan

Please. Someone tell us where this rumor originated from

Someones imagination. Really, Johnson for Abdelcatorwhatevertheblankhisnameis..? I got one...Kopitar for Khabibulin...oh wait.

Originally Posted by Winsomemore

Pondering what may be going on inside the head of the star of this summers UFA drama...

Well....IK is thinking, I could have signed last year and be looking at a good, solid, $100M contract..one that's actually legal.

Instead, here i sit..in limbo....with no contract.

Why?

Who is at fault?

Who put me in this situation?

Was it me? Did I misunderstand something Grossman was telling me?

Was it Lou and Vanderbeek that did not tell Jay and I about what Bettman was going to do?

Did Grossman know and not tell me?

-------------------------------------

Point I'm trying to make is that mistrust could very well have set in between IK and Grossman/Lou/Vanderbeek.

Does Kovy really know who he can trust at this time?

If IK was not told about this prior to the presser...if I was IK.....I'd be really, really, really, really pissed off.

That's not happening at all. Kovalchuk is a member of organized labor. He would never accept that he, his agent, or his union are capable of bad judgment or personal resposibility in any way. The only people he would ever distrust are the NHL holding him down. I promise you, if he's angry, 100% of that anger is directed at Bettman and the league.

It would never even occur to him that he or his agent (or the owner who caved so quickly and politely to his outrageous demands) could have any responsibility for the fix he's in.

Well it seem IK knew the contract was going to be challenged BEFORE the PC. This guy from the Devil's HF boards emailed Bill Daly since he seems to be answering fan emails.

For what it’s worth, I also sent an email to Mr. Daly and received a response:


Mr. Daly,

I understand that you have been answering questions from concerned fans of the NHL and of the New Jersey Devils, and first I have to say that this is such a genuinely classy move that despite my current frustration with the decisions that are made and the confusion that has ensued, it is great to see that the lines of communication are open and you still keep the best interest of the fans at heart.

While reports leaked out last night that the Devils were, in fact notified of the pending contract rejection before their press conference on Tuesday, no one has stated whether or not Mr. Kovalchuk and his agent were given the same notification on Monday night. I think that for myself, and all other Devils fans, the hysteria would die down if we at least received confirmation that Ilya knew about the pending contract decision, but still decided to go forward with stating his intention to remain a New Jersey Devil for life. If this is the case, I think that the consensus will be to let the chips fall as they may and accept the fate of arbitration or a restructuring of the contract. I think that the main concern now is not with the numbers or arbitration, but that Ilya feels deceived or cheated and will consequently be reluctant to commit to what has been one of the most well run and successful organizations in all of sports.

I would also just like to add that personally I do not see any “anti-Devils” bias in the decision, it has been well-known that the league is unhappy with these types of contracts, only it is frustrating to see competitors get away with contracts like these that have the same effect of circumventing the cap while still abiding by the same rules as they are explicitly stated in the CBA.

Best Regards


His Reply:

Alex - Thanks for the note and the understanding. Without being specific or betraying any confidences, I certainly have reason to believe that Ilya (or his agent) were aware of what the League’s position was going to be with respect to the contract at least as early as Monday night. As it relates to the “other” contracts, it was our determination that this contract differed in material respects, and certainly pushed the envelope beyond which we think the CBA allows. I understand the “frustration” that Devils fans may feel, but I would suggest that the best course is to sit tight to see how this thing turns out. There may be a number of acts left in this play. Bill

Posted by Al on 07/22 at 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by death69

Well it seem IK knew the contract was going to be challenged BEFORE the PC. This guy from the Devil's HF boards emailed Bill Daly since he seems to be answering fan emails.

"I certainly have reason to believe that Ilya (or his agent) were aware of what the League’s position....."

Now, did Grossman NOT tell Kovalchuk?

As for the Ilya Kovalchuk fiasco/test case, New York Magazine's sports section, via Joe DeLessio, asked arbitrator/sports law professor/director of Marquette Law School's National Sports Law Institute Matt Mitten to weigh the NHLPA's case in suggesting that Kovalchuk's 17-year contract does not circumvent the CBA, coming to the following conclusion:

July 22, New York Magazine:

Is the question of whether they expect him to be playing at age 44 the biggest issue?

I would think that would be pretty important if there is a provision in there that said you can't do anything to circumvent the cap. But I'm not sure how that would apply in this particular case. What is he, 27? That's a long time to play NHL hockey, particularly if you've already been in the league for several years. But someone like Gordie Howe played, into what, his 50s? Very interesting case. Very interesting case.

Does it hurt the NHL's case that the CBA does spell out rules about salary increases and decreases, and that this does follow them?

Yeah, because the arbitrator's going to have to construe the terms of the CBA. And the more evidence that the terms of the contract are permitted, that there's no express prohibition against this, and that it's structured in such a way that they can point to a particular provision and say, "Hey, look, this is permitted," then they've got a stronger argument that the NHL was trying to unilaterally prohibit it, and this would violate the terms of the CBA.

Would it factor in that similar contracts, like Marian Hossa's, have already been approved?

Yeah, that's certainly relevant evidence. Going back to it and saying, well, what's really different about this contract here? I think that would be relevant evidence in determining what was really the intent of the CBA, since the express terms don't say either you can or you can't, although as you point out, it's structured in such a way that it does fall within the amount by which the salary can be decreased from year to year.

Arbitration awards are not like appellate court opinions in that they have precedent. But arbitrators do look to that. It's certainly something that would be considered. Depending on how that arbitration came out, you can bet one side or the other is really going to be relying on that to support their respective argument.

_______________________________________________

Sports Illustrated's Jim Kelley also write a SUPERB (yes, it must be capitalized) article summarizing the ramifications of this contract in terms of the NHL, the NHLPA, and the upcoming CBA negotiations, coming to this conclusion:


July 22, Sports Illustrated:

History, especially in the case of the Phoenix Coyotes, shows that when Bettman takes anyone to court, he's willing to spare no expense to win. But even if he loses in court or in arbitration, he will have at least set the table for a bargaining fight with the NHLPA. Having won the last time around, he'll likely strike fear into the rank and file if he makes Kovalchuk-sized contracts an issue that could bring about yet another league-wide lockout. It's a hammer that he's not beyond using.

There's also a problem for the PA here in that, among its many mandates, it's supposed to get as much money as possible for its members and fight any intrusion into the CBA that could limit that amount. This contract issue would qualify for such a fight, but the PA also has members who don't get Kovalchuk, Pronger, Hossa, Vinny Lecavalier, Rick DiPietro or Brian Campbell money. A growing number of players have become unhappy with the ramifications of heavily front-loaded, extremely long-term deals. In recent years, some players have had to take their well-earned, reasonable contracts and go play in the minors while GMs, including Lamoriello, shuffle the financial deck to fit superstar free agents under the salary cap.

The NHLPA is charged with protecting those lesser-light players and their interests, and its primary concern is their continued NHL employment rather than their riding buses in minor leagues. The larger their numbers grow, the more pressing the problem becomes.

So where does it all go from here? I'd like to tell you, but with even the Supreme Court undoing years of what used to be known as presumed settled law, it's next to impossible to think that this issue won't have a few noteworthy twists and turns ahead before it's resolved.

On the NHL's investment rating and more Kovalchuk/NHLPA stuff | MLive.com

I don't see what Grossman's motivation would be to not tell his client. If the news is going to come out, the last thing Grossman would want to do is deceive his client. That's career suicide.
Posted via Mobile Device

Career suicide...sounds like an appropriate finish to a shiddy career.

I think the bottom line is that the Devils should've cancelled the press conference if they knew that the NHL was going to reject the deal. In my opinion they look like complete idiots for going through with it.
If the NHLPA does grieve it, and the NHL wins, I'm sure they would fine the Devils the max for going through with the conference when knowing the end result.