Thread: An the most popular buyout on Capgeek.com is...[Roberto Luongo Thread]

Originally Posted by UnholyGoalie

UFA's, none. Pending RFA's/soon to be RFA/FA: Carey Price, Tim Thomas, Mikka Kipprusoff, Tomas Vokoun. Up-and-comers: Schneider, Bernier.

He's hardly the only goalie out there and most of the players I mentioned aren't tied to huge contracts (and if they are, those contracts will be expiring before Luongo's). And really, 5.3 isn't all that manageable. It certainly isn't 2.5.

Kipper's playoff pedigree? It's remarkable really that he got past round one ONCE at that was eight years ago and people still can't see it. I remember his last really big game in 2010 as do most Americans. That dude is CLUTCH. Vokoun? Really? For his durability? Thomas?

You really have a crush on the aging, 35+ guys.

Vokoun has 11 career playoff games. His best move ever was getting hurt and letting the #3 take over this year. Without that happening, Washington loses to Boston. The 11 he has missed should go on his resume.

Kipper, already mentioned.

Thomas? A one year playoff wonder and actually even then wasn't great throughout but benefited from some weak opponents. (note that 2 of the 3 Eastern opponents he faced weren't even close to the playoffs this year) Love to see him play his style without Chara and the rest of his big, defence in front of him. Wait, maybe that why it took him over a DECADE to even win single playoff game after leaving college. He was great in the SCF last year though.

I am not sure why you think contracts EXPIRING is a good thing. That means losing the player to free agency or possibly retirement considering their ages. Luongo on the other hand is signed and will be a moveable asset in 3 years if need be.

And I'll repeat it, the last couple of years of Luongo's deal are purely for the sake of cap fixing. Everyone knows it. He isn't going to be a bench warmer for chump change.

Originally Posted by UnholyGoalie

If I had a political bumper sticker it would probably say something to the effect of "fire all politicians", but that's neither here nor there.

To me, a great bounty would be an impact player which I don't think Vancouver will squeeze out. For the money, term, and extracurriculars of Luongo, I would say Vancouver needs to approach this as addition by subtraction and not "how can we rape another team?"

And your second line is kinda my point, the Canucks acquired Luongo for basically Bertuzzi who was riddled with the fallout of Steve Moore, and somehow people expect this time around the Canucks will pry a gem from another team?

As for Schenn...maybe. I dunno. I do hear quite a lot of complaints about Schenn from Leafs fans so I'd say be careful what you wish for. I also think Toronto would be a bad fit for Luongo (Francois Allaire or not) simply because of the huge expectations Leafs fans put on their players. But it would be entertaining at least.

The Luongo deal was made possible by Mike Keenan and his ego. He wasn't going to give an inch on his negotiation with Luongo (who thought they were down to the 't's and 'i's of a deal) and Keenan's man crush on Bert. (see, signed by Calgary when Keenan got there) It was a rip off of epic proportion and everyone knew it except for the Bertuzzi fan club and those truly dedicated to hating everything Vancouver.

Schenn is another horrible decision by the Leafs to rush a young dman into the limelight when it was far too early. They are currently a total joke. Schenn plays tough and is exactly what we could use. BTW, there isn't that much more pressure in TO than Vancouver. THey have the Jays and Raptors to deflect some anger and really the goal in TO is just MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. But a bad fit or not doesn't matter because the Vancouver Canucks do not care. FWIW, I can tell you that Dave Nonis, our past GM and current asst GM in TO (and lapdog to Burke) stated that if he was going to build a team he would start with Luongo as his goalie and this was BEFORE we traded for him. Considering Burke's constant need for attention and his love of the big deal....who knows.

You obviously have Luongo's value pegged way higher than I do. No real need to continue this. Neither one of us will change our views and your minimizing of Tim Thomas is laughable. You know what he has that Luongo doesn"t? Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.

Personally I think Luongo isn't that far removed from being the next Huet, but I think he'll stay in the NHL and not be banished to Europe. As I said, he's a good goalie just not a great one. And try as you might you're not gonna get me to think that his contract is an asset in this.

Originally Posted by UnholyGoalie

You obviously have Luongo's value pegged way higher than I do. No real need to continue this. Neither one of us will change our views and your minimizing of Tim Thomas is laughable. You know what he has that Luongo doesn"t? Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.

Does that make Niemi better than Quick? Would you take Fleury over Quick? Giguere? And what exactly would winning last year mean for next year? You have Romnied again with your absurb menopausal mood swings. You say lots of things without saying anything.

Originally Posted by gradin

Does that make Niemi better than Quick?

Well one could argue that Niemi has been there and done that. I wouldn't take him over Quick but it's a point someone could make.

Originally Posted by gradin

Would you take Fleury over Quick? Giguere?

See above.

Originally Posted by gradin

And what exactly would winning last year mean for next year?

If you're talking about Tim Thomas, as the examples above, he's been there and done that and was a major linchpin why Boston won. How many times did Luongo get pulled during the playoffs last year? Luongo wasn't the reason Vancouver lost, but he didn't help as much as a top flite goalie should.

Originally Posted by gradin

You have Romnied again with your absurb menopausal mood swings. You say lots of things without saying anything.

One, I don't know why you keep bringing in politics into this. Smells like a red herring. Two, between the two of us, you're the only one making backhanded comments. So exactly who is the menopausal one in this equation? I've said my peace using common sense and logic. We could debate this until we're blue in the face and get nowhere.

Would be ironic after all this if Gillis trades Schneider instead of Luongo.

Originally Posted by UnholyGoalie

Well one could argue that Niemi has been there and done that. I wouldn't take him over Quick but it's a point someone could make.

Who the hell would seriously consider Niemi over Quick? Possibly a crazy Sharks homer.

UG, I expected you to know something about goalies based on your name. I should know better than to read too much into a name. Luongo was why we won 3 games in the SCF. Other than that, we were just a beat up team that ran out of gas. That happens to Western teams that travel too much.

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I'd trade Schneider if the deal was right. I'd trade anyone if the deal was right. But it wouldn't be ironic. We still have a great #3 goalie in Eddie Lack, so no big worry. Ideally we get younger, but that changes quickly depending on the offer.

I'll drop the Romneyism and just call you a flip flopper. It wasn't a political comment in the least. You've gone from Vancouver being happy to get anything, to getting an overpaid washed up Vinnie to maybe getting something, to RL being in Europe a la Huet.

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A simple question, what do you base your evaluation of Luongo on and why is it so out of tune with most people in hockey? What is it about that the last decade and his dominance that has you so full of denial? Would you take a star like Rinne over him? Will you be happy when Quick gets $6.5? Or should the Kings say no and look elsewhere? Yikes, that's a lot of questions. I really am just curious to know where you are coming from. You make random comments with no merit and I think it would great to hear some rational. I do not think I know everything, but I do like to hear someone's reasoning when they make slightly crazy comments.

Originally Posted by gradin

A simple question, what do you base your evaluation of Luongo on and why is it so out of tune with most people in hockey?

Go back and read post #28 in this thread. I wouldn't say my views are out of whack with most in hockey. I would say they aren't in line with Vancouver fans who seem to overvalue Luongo. Probably the same fans who chant LUOOOOO every time he makes a routine save. If you want to read more about what other goalies think about Luongo and what his value is, check this out: Luongo Trade - Goalie Store Bulletin Board

Originally Posted by gradin

What is it about that the last decade and his dominance that has you so full of denial?

First off, as I said, he's a good goalie, just not a great one. Now maybe I do need to bone up a bit on my Luongo stuff. What decade of dominance are you referring to? Yes, he's had some good years. I never said he was not capable of playing lights-out. I know him well enough to know he can steal games. But when has he ever been "The Guy"? It's kinda like Chris Osgood. Damn good goalie in his own right but when was he ever "The Guy" (meaning the undisputed #1, who carried his team on his back and never cast doubt to the media and fans that he wasn't capable of being the money goalie game after game, week after week, season after season? And for all his doubters, Osgood has 3 rings on his fingers. If I'm so off base on my views of Luongo, please enlighten me with facts.

Originally Posted by gradin

Would you take a star like Rinne over him?

Over Luongo? Yes, I would and I'll tell you why. Rinne's style is much more adept at physical improvisation. That's one of the areas where a lot of us goalies lower our value of Luongo. He plays the Allaire blocking technique which is rigid and puts a premium on staying big and boiling goaltending down to one type of save, i.e. stay big and block. The technique minimizes stick use as well as improvisation. Rinne, on the other hand, uses his athleticism (much like Quick) to his advantage while still maintaining a big profile (of course, the dude is huge, so he doesn't have to work hard to stay big). It's the same reason I chose Bryzgalov over Giguere years ago (post '07, fyi). If you wish to read more about Allaire criticism read: And once again the Robot's sink the Leafs - Goalie Store Bulletin Board

Pay attention to the posts written by Keeks who's a very well respected goalie coach. If I remember correctly he was the goalie coach in Toronto before they brought in Allaire. Allaire is the main reason Luongo has Toronto on his list of teams. As I said before, I think Luongo in Toronto would be a disaster but at least it would be entertaining.

Originally Posted by gradin

Will you be happy when Quick gets $6.5?

Depends on the term. 6.5 per year for 10 years, no I would not be happy. I love Quick but that's a crap ton of money to give for a goalie when there's a glut of young cheap talent. 6.5 for 4 years I would be okay. What goalies have received huge pay days and went on to be very successful for the duration? Sure Luongo has had some success, as well as Bryzgalov, and Niemi, but with all 3 of those goalies there have been bouts of buyer's remorse. Don't want that to happen with Quick and I'd want to hedge my bets in case something should happen (long term injury, playing below expectation). Don't know the specifics on Lundqvist, so maybe he's an example of a big dollar, long term goalie who is worth his contract. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

Originally Posted by gradin

Or should the Kings say no and look elsewhere?

Well you really need to look no farther than Bernier. That's the hedged bet Lombardi has. Granted I think Quick has proven he's worth the gamble but if his demands are too high you can say adios and go with Bernier/Zatkoff or Bernier/veteran backup going forward.

Originally Posted by gradin

Yikes, that's a lot of questions. I really am just curious to know where you are coming from. You make random comments with no merit and I think it would great to hear some rational. I do not think I know everything, but I do like to hear someone's reasoning when they make slightly crazy comments.

I don't think what I've said is crazy at all. Do you always view dissenting views as "crazy"?

I'll put it as clear as I can make it:

Luongo
Contract: large with numerous remaining years. Not every team has the space available to take it on and the ones that do need to evaluate if they want Luongo for the duration.
Play: Hot and cold. Can play lights out and can also be Lu-ocho. Which one are you gonna get? The one who starts every season slow or the one who goes on a tear? Every goalie can go on a tear. Look at Holtby. Look at Elliott. Now is every goalie worth that kind of contract?
Intangibles: Has proven to lack mental toughness at times. Can buckle under pressure. Prone to histrionics on the ice (diving, selling calls, pouting). This is now two teams he will be leaving from under less than optimal conditions (i.e. playing games with Florida and not working on a deal and then crying "wha???" when he gets traded, at least that is my recollection. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

See, that's some actual rational with some historical avoidance to make it sound even more rational. I am glad to know your opinion is actually just someone elses being reposted.

We'll ignore the multiple Vezina nominations, the Hart nom and the Pearson nom. We'll ignore the shut outs, the save% the wins over the last decade. We won't even talk about the Jennings. Instead, we will rely on internet hysteria of "meltdowns". Then we'll toss in some names of goalies who went on short streaks to dazzle the internet sheep. Who's that whatshisname that went to Finals with the Flyers? I can't remember? He was pretty good for a short period. The TO goalies suck because they suck. They suck because the defence sucks. While many may not like Allaire, he can't be blamed for sucky sucks sucking. Burke has proven over his career as GM that getting a real goalie is a major mental handicap for himself. He is under the impression that trying out EVERY no name nobody has to work at some point.

I just watched Rinne lose his team a series, again. 7 more years now at $7M. Now that's a big cap hit.

Time will tell the tale. We'll see what happens between now and the start of next season.

edit: that is of course that there is something called "summer" and the "off season" and these are not just the figments of my biased, hysterical, lemming mind.