Thread: Osgood Retires.

Originally Posted by KINGS17

I think this is what people that don't want to see Osgood in the HOF are saying. It should be reserved for goaltenders that intimidated shooters. Goalies that win championships obviously are not chopped liver, but that doesn't put them in the HOF.

How did Osgood fair in St. Louis?

I never thought Osgood was intimidating...

I thought, when he got in his zone, he was unbeatable. Not intimidating...Belfour could take over a game. Osgood I felt was the type of guy who could steal a game from you.

That may not sound like a huge difference...but..I dunno...I think Fleury the equivalent of a modern day Osgood. Really not an intimidating goaltender...but when he is on his game it feels like you just can't beat the guy.

A modern day intimidating goalie?

Rinne.

Originally Posted by Jaygokings!

Nasti, do you wanna cherry pick more? ...Did you like..just go to Wikipedia and glance at the stats??

That 04 playoffs you are talking about...he played for the NUMBER 7 SEED ST. LOUIS BLUES...matched up against a heavily favored 2 seed San Jose sharks. A team that went to the Conference Finals. They lost in the first round 1-4 in 5 games.

I can cherry pick stats to make goalies look undeserving also and terrible also

Hey in 95 Hasek had a .863 SV% and a 3.49 GAA.
(Reality? He played 5 games and it was against NJ, the eventual cup champs. Funny how that can look REAL bad when you don't explain it right?)

in 92 Belfour had a .882 SV% and a 3.13 GAA

And forgive me but which of those TWO playoffs did he win the cup from the bench? YES he had a cup ring in 97, but guess what...all back ups and bench players get cup rings. Ken Dryden won a cup in 71 AS A BACK UP. DO you think when people bring up Ken Dryden and say "Phenomenal goalie, he won 6 cups" some jackass pipes up and says "well he didn't earn that won, he won it form the bench.."

Tony Esposito won 3 Vezinas, and is in the HOF, but his ONLY cup ring comes from 69 when he backed up Vachon. He never played a game in the playoffs, but he was dressed so he got a cup. Does that lessen is career achievements? Do people when they get introduced to "Tony Esposito, Stanley Cup Champion and 3 time Vezina winner" the guy says "oh well he didn't earn that cup."?

Back to Osgood however,

It was his 3rd year in the league, he had a rough regular season, split time with Vernon..and come playoffs Mike Vernon was the starter, and was playing OUT OF HIS MIND. He won MVP of the playoffs if I am not mistaken.

SO In the 2 series he ACTUALLY played in, which one did he not earn? The 98 when he played 22games, all of them in the finals or the 08 when he played 19, all of them in the finals, and had shutouts in game 1 and 2? Look at those stats. Which one of those did he not earn?

And I saw Osgood play in TWO cup finals, won 2 of them, and in those 3 playoff years they made it to the finals led by Osgood

97-98 22gp 16-6 2 SO 2.12 GAA .918 SV%
07-08 19gp 14-4 3 SO 1.55 GAA .930 SV% 2 Shutouts in the finals
08-09 23gp 15-8 2 SO 2.01 GAA .926 SV%

or even in non cup run years

99-00 when they swept us in the 1st and got smoked 4-1 by Colorado in the 2nd.

9gp 5-4 2 SO 1.97 GAA .924 SV%

or how about a 5 seed Islanders team playing..still respectable, decent playoff numbers from a non "stacked" detroit squad.

7gp 3-4 2.60 GAA .912 SV%



Let's not act like he was a standout regular season goalie, he was as streaky as they come. But when it came to the playoffs, he was money when it mattered. Those numbers are fantastic. And to say he is a bad goalie or not deserving of even a hall of fame GLANCE...that is not giving credit where credit is due. I think it's sad the flack this guy gets. He was a damn fine goalie, and a HUGE reason why Detroit had some dominant runs.

My whole point was that stats don't mean anything in this case. I was nitpicking stats cuz of the earlier post. I don't care how good Osgood's stats were. I saw him play and he wasn't anything special. There are plenty of goalies who didn't make the HOF who would have done just as good or better than him on the Red Wings. Also, I said he won one of his 3 cups from the bench.

Originally Posted by NastiMarvasti

My whole point was that stats don't mean anything in this case. I was nitpicking stats cuz of the earlier post. I don't care how good Osgood's stats were. I saw him play and he wasn't anything special. There are plenty of goalies who didn't make the HOF who would have done just as good or better than him on the Red Wings. Also, I said he won one of his 3 cups from the bench.

you can't prove that.

and there great goalies on great teams that couldn't get it done... else both Roberto Luongo and Curtis Joseph would have rings.

you completely disregarded the argument between Osgood and Nabokov... which the stats WERE intended for to illustrate not only that Doc's back-door approach to prove Osgood not worthy was bad, but why.


do Dominik Hasek's cups come with an asterisk? he won one FROM THE BENCH, and the other, well, let's just say that THAT Red Wings team was probably the single greatest team Detroit ever iced in history - who, including Hasek, i count 9 Hall of Famers... and if you want to count Datsyuk as a probable, you've got 10.

10 on a 25-man roster

Originally Posted by gescom

you can't prove that.

and there great goalies on great teams that couldn't get it done... else both Roberto Luongo and Curtis Joseph would have rings.

you completely disregarded the argument between Osgood and Nabokov... which the stats WERE intended for to illustrate not only that Doc's back-door approach to prove Osgood not worthy was bad, but why.

do Dominik Hasek's cups come with an asterisk? he won one FROM THE BENCH, and the other, well, let's just say that THAT Red Wings team was probably the single greatest team Detroit ever iced in history - who, including Hasek, i count 9 Hall of Famers... and if you want to count Datsyuk as a probable, you've got 10.

10 on a 25-man roster

I can't prove it but again, I watched Hasek play and I watched Osgood play. I disregarded the Nabokov thing because I don't think Nabokov belongs either. You mentioned Kolzig. Do you not think that had he played for the Wings most of his career that we'd be talking about his HOF induction and Osgood would be nothing more than a footnote? I keep bringing up cup wins because that seems to be the only requirement for you guys. Hasek makes the HOF with 0 Stanley Cups as far as I'm concerned. Osgood doesn't make the HOF with 3.

Cujo deserves a longer look actually. How many times did we see CO do to a team what Joseph did to Dallas in '97?

How can you ignore 400 wins and 3 Stanley Cups? Nonsense.

Originally Posted by NastiMarvasti

I can't prove it but again, I watched Hasek play and I watched Osgood play. I disregarded the Nabokov thing because I don't think Nabokov belongs either. You mentioned Kolzig. Do you not think that had he played for the Wings most of his career that we'd be talking about his HOF induction and Osgood would be nothing more than a footnote? I keep bringing up cup wins because that seems to be the only requirement for you guys. Hasek makes the HOF with 0 Stanley Cups as far as I'm concerned. Osgood doesn't make the HOF with 3.

Cujo deserves a longer look actually. How many times did we see CO do to a team what Joseph did to Dallas in '97?

In my opinion, Joseph doesn't deserve a longer look because of the opportunities he blew with the Wings and how team Canada had to replace him in the Olympics (He never should have been the starter anyway). He just wasn't a winner, something that Ozzie undeniably is. With that said, both goalies should be looked to as the benchmark (for different reasons) of being good but not good enough for the hall.

Originally Posted by Byatch1979

In my opinion, Joseph doesn't deserve a longer look because of the opportunities he blew with the Wings and how team Canada had to replace him in the Olympics (He never should have been the starter anyway). He just wasn't a winner, something that Ozzie undeniably is. With that said, both goalies should be looked to as the benchmark (for different reasons) of being good but not good enough for the hall.

The being a "winner" argument is crap in my opinion. My point is that it's easier to be a winner if you're on the right team. Joseph really had 2 chances with the Wings. The first year was after all the rumors that Hasek was returning at the end of the season that saw a dip in Cujo's play because of it. Even still, look up his numbers in the playoffs those 2 years. You think Osgood would have outplayed Giguere in '03? What happened in his first 2 tries with the Wings? Oh yeah, Jamie Baker happened.

Originally Posted by NastiMarvasti

The being a "winner" argument is crap in my opinion. My point is that it's easier to be a winner if you're on the right team. Joseph really had 2 chances with the Wings. The first year was after all the rumors that Hasek was returning at the end of the season that saw a dip in Cujo's play because of it. Even still, look up his numbers in the playoffs those 2 years. You think Osgood would have outplayed Giguere in '03? What happened in his first 2 tries with the Wings? Oh yeah, Jamie Baker happened.

Yes, I agree that their are a lot of external factors involved with winning but that doesn't mean the argument is crap, especially when talking about Hall of Fame goaltenders. You even pointed out a few examples yourself where a goalie can win it all pretty much by themselves. Goalie is the only position in hockey where you can completely blow a game or steal a game.

As you know, Osgood didn't do much game stealing in his career but what he did do was not blow it either. That stands for something, but as I've said before, not enough to get him in the Hall.

Joseph on the other hand did blow prime opportunities to shine when the opportunities were finally given to him. Lets not forgot how Ozzie kept clawing and scraping his way back as the Wing starting goaltender while Joseph was pretty much run out of town.

Some players just can't stand in the spotlight and CuJo proved himself to be one of them... And yes, winning the Spengler Cup doesn't count.

Originally Posted by NastiMarvasti

I can't prove it but again, I watched Hasek play and I watched Osgood play.

You have said this in 3 posts.

So basically, you can't defend it with examples or stats, (and when you did you cherry picked a 7 seed playing a 2 in 5 games...) but you are trying to tell people they are wrong based on your own personal opinion of Chris Osgood?

Well then, I saw him play too, and I am in the opposite corner. There. Neener neener