Osgood Retires.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

I hope he enjoys his induction into the Hall of Winners.

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"I really can't hear what you say...I've got my two Stanley Cup rings plugging my ears."

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Originally Posted by Byatch1979

Yes, I agree that their are a lot of external factors involved with winning but that doesn't mean the argument is crap, especially when talking about Hall of Fame goaltenders. You even pointed out a few examples yourself where a goalie can win it all pretty much by themselves. Goalie is the only position in hockey where you can completely blow a game or steal a game.

As you know, Osgood didn't do much game stealing in his career but what he did do was not blow it either. That stands for something, but as I've said before, not enough to get him in the Hall.

Joseph on the other hand did blow prime opportunities to shine when the opportunities were finally given to him. Lets not forgot how Ozzie kept clawing and scraping his way back as the Wing starting goaltender while Joseph was pretty much run out of town.

Some players just can't stand in the spotlight and CuJo proved himself to be one of them... And yes, winning the Spengler Cup doesn't count.

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I just completely disagree with you about Cujo. He was never on a powerhouse until he was past his prime. You don't think playing in Edmonton and Toronto count as the spotlight? He carried those teams. When he finally got a shot with the Wings, the whole team got Giguere'd. Like I asked before, do you think Osgood would have done any better? People said the same thing about Belfour for years. That he wasn't a winner until he won a cup in '99. So if Buffalo won, all of a sudden he's not a winner? It's so simplistic.

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Originally Posted by Jaygokings!

You have said this in 3 posts.

So basically, you can't defend it with examples or stats, (and when you did you cherry picked a 7 seed playing a 2 in 5 games...) but you are trying to tell people they are wrong based on your own personal opinion of Chris Osgood?

Well then, I saw him play too, and I am in the opposite corner. There. Neener neener

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Actually I sighted several examples throughout the thread. Jamie Baker, center ice goals throughout the '98 win, his winning % in St. Louis and on the island, not ever being considered for Team Canada, not ever being considered for a Vezina, the Wings always looking for better options (Vernon, Hasek, Howard) etc. Most just don't want to hear it. Apparently, winning is the only thing that matters when it comes to goalies getting inducted.

And even if it was a 7 seed, an .890 save% is pretty bad.

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Originally Posted by Jaygokings!

Nasti, do you wanna cherry pick more? ...Did you like..just go to Wikipedia and glance at the stats??


And forgive me but which of those TWO playoffs did he win the cup from the bench? YES he had a cup ring in 97, but guess what...all back ups and bench players get cup rings. Ken Dryden won a cup in 71 AS A BACK UP. DO you think when people bring up Ken Dryden and say "Phenomenal goalie, he won 6 cups" some jackass pipes up and says "well he didn't earn that won, he won it form the bench.."

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Little correction about Dryden:

Dryden won the Conn Smythe in 71, Rogie was the starter until the last 6 games of the regular season and then was backup during the Cup run and promptly asked to be traded. (which happened in the fall of 71 to the Kings)

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Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

I hope he enjoys his induction into the Hall of Winners.

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but, he'll likely make the Hall Of Fame too.

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Originally Posted by NastiMarvasti

Actually I sighted several examples throughout the thread. Jamie Baker, center ice goals throughout the '98 win, his winning % in St. Louis and on the island, not ever being considered for Team Canada, not ever being considered for a Vezina, the Wings always looking for better options (Vernon, Hasek, Howard) etc. Most just don't want to hear it. Apparently, winning is the only thing that matters when it comes to goalies getting inducted.

And even if it was a 7 seed, an .890 save% is pretty bad.

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Okay great about the save % but you DO realize I cited Belfour and Hasek who ALSO had years with worse save percentages? My point was you totally cherry picked the stats to make it seem like that was some horrible injustice to goaltending that he had those numbers.

It happens, to even the best.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV-FqC9aKAY"]‪Red Wings Chris Osgood Scores a Goal‬‏ - YouTube[/nomedia]

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Originally Posted by Jaygokings!

Okay great about the save % but you DO realize I cited Belfour and Hasek who ALSO had years with worse save percentages? My point was you totally cherry picked the stats to make it seem like that was some horrible injustice to goaltending that he had those numbers.

It happens, to even the best.

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I keep saying stats don't mean crap. I only cherry picked because others were doing the same with his best years in Detroit. I was saying his stats in those years are also a product of the team considering how he did on other teams. It's like people who say Jonathan Toews isn't all that great because he doesn't score as much as Crosby or Ovechkin. Watch the guy play and you'll see why he's a great player. Not everything shows up on the stat sheet.

Whoops...

At 3:05
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOfrRkQAcrQ"]‪1998 Playoffs - Red Wings @ Coyotes Game 3‬‏ - YouTube[/nomedia]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVao7xscN-A"]‪MacInnis scores from half-court 5/12/98 playoffs‬‏ - YouTube[/nomedia]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwifR3jO8fU"]‪Wings @ Stars 1998 WCF Game 5‬‏ - YouTube[/nomedia]

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Originally Posted by NastiMarvasti

I just completely disagree with you about Cujo. He was never on a powerhouse until he was past his prime. You don't think playing in Edmonton and Toronto count as the spotlight? He carried those teams. When he finally got a shot with the Wings, the whole team got Giguere'd. Like I asked before, do you think Osgood would have done any better? People said the same thing about Belfour for years. That he wasn't a winner until he won a cup in '99. So if Buffalo won, all of a sudden he's not a winner? It's so simplistic.

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Yeah, it is simplistic. You got to win, and that's the criterion that makes someone like Belfour get in and CuJo hopefully not. Fair or unfair, I think that you should have to be both dominant and a winner to get in the Hall. Neither Cujo or Osgood are both. Sure, they'll be the odd exception, but I don't think that applies to either player.