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I am so sad to see Frolov go. From what I saw through the years, he really loved playing in L.A. I truly enjoyed watching him protect the puck, and his goals were beautiful. I hate the lack of respect he received of late, and I wish him all the best. I know, "don't marry yourself to a player"...whatever. I will miss you like crazy, Fro.
Dean is being cute here. He's playing the "Poor little Fro got all hurt because he doesn't think we showed him enough love, cause we were too busy with Kovalchuk" card. The reality is a little different. There was scorn and neglect over a course of months, not just two weeks. Lombardi admitted himself that he wasn't even talking with the agent or making any offers. Then, all of a sudden, things fall apart, and Dean decides "hey, we still have that Frolov guy out there, maybe we bring him back in - he loves it here, he'll swallow it!" Well, guess what - you can piss in the punchbowl only so much, before the punch starts tasting like piss.Originally Posted by Bogey
So the whole notion that Frolov just got upset that they prioritized Kovalchuk over him is bull****. And I hope that Dean realizes that he's not being completely honest there, because if he truly believes that, there's a bunch of really basic books that he needs to read before he should even dream of tackling War and Peace.
You don't know what went down better than anybody else so you saying all of this doesn't make you any more credible.
However, everything is a two way street...Dean may not have been talking to Fro's agent, but that also means Fro's agent wasn't talking to Dean.
You know what $3M is?
Market value.
Frolov got exactly what he's worth. How often do good quality 28 yr old UFAs get less than they're worth? Never. They get EXACTLY what they're worth. If Frolov was worth more than $3M, someone would have signed him for more than $3M. The sour grapes his agent (and a bunch of LGKers) whined about him being misused is a bunch of horse****. GMs know if a guy is being misused or treated unfairly and if that were true and Frolov was some poor abused player, some other GM would snap him up at a premium (overpaid) salary just like every other quality UFA in his prime.
This should be a reality check to all the Frolov lovers that he's really not worth what y'all think he's worth.
The free market has spoken and he's worth right about $3M based on his play the last couple years.
They kicked the tires at the 11th hour. Big deal. There's always a "possibility" and DL wouldn't be the first GM (which includes some great GMs) to do it this way.
It is laughable. Laughable that so many people think Frolov is worth sooooooo much money.
Whoa there cowboy. If Frolov played the game they REALLY wanted him to play he'd have been on the 1st line all season.
What happened was that after years of the Kings trying to fit a square peg (3rd liner) in a round hole (1st liner), DL finally accepted that at this age he is what he is and they lowered their expectations to being realistic. They stopped expecting him to be a great player and started expecting him to be just who he is.
Make no mistake, the Kings desperately wanted him to play hard enough and well enough to be on the 1st line.
And that says more about Frolov than anyone else. Hundreds, if not thousands of NHLers have gone thru similar (not exact, but similar) troubling times and they play just fine. Some even win Norris Trophies (yes, I'm looking right at Chris Chelios).
Oh sure, that argument is bs...just as much bs as a woe-is-me Frolov.
Frolov should have played harder and better. If he did, he'd still be a King and would probably have a 7 yr $40M+ contract right now.
you could also say that this simply means that the player has an extra gear that they hadn't been tapping all season (or over how many seasons)?
I find it interesting that many people think that the behavior modification program that TM/DL was doing was "malicious". first people said it was a plan by TM and DL to make sure Fro would sign a much smaller deal with the Kings, because he had a Kings tattoo on his rear end. Now its been changed up to they were just being downright "dickish" to him, and making it "personal".
Well, I didn't think that was the case, and obviously they didn't do it to try to get Fro to sign for less $. And I don't think it was personal at all.
They knew he had an extra gear, but wasn't bringing it most nights. That isn't a system issue, that's a player's determination/heart issue. And people with the pro-fro focus will say "well, that is because they mistreated him" and they would know deep down that it has been an issue across multiple coaches and over years. Don't make excuses for him not playing as hard as he could.
Fro's tattoo on his rear end for the Kings was built on, unfortunately, a certain level of complacency potentially built during a time of the team losing and not having high expectations.
That all changed during the playoffs. I've never seen him play harder and with more heart than during that stretch of games. He took the body, he battled for every puck. Can anyone honestly say that Fro was bringing that A game every day, or even every month, for the past 3+ years?
And that's the challenge. no coach or GM will be able to reach Fro long term. he's what we would term extremely high "internal frame", where he shrugs off pretty much everything and goes back to his own "core temperature". Even after the benching, he played harder for a few weeks, then slowly went back to his previous ways.
If the playoffs taught Fro something, we will see him raise his "core temperature" and play huge for NY. If he goes back to his "core temperature" of years past, CBGB will be right and Tortorella is going to eat his lunch.
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I wish Frolov good luck in the New York.
Hopefully he will fit in there - a fresh start on the east coast might be good for him. I saw sure that Anaheim was gonna sign him - glad they didn't!
It was obvious that he wasn't a good fit with the current Kings system. You gotta screw up good to get benched with that much raw talent. At the same time, the Kings organization is just as much to blame since they did not have much of a development system to bring him into nor a consistent system to play in for most of his career in LA.
i'm not going to piss with you over money, even though i don't quite agree with what you're saying. but i will tackle these two...
Frolov was, is and always has been a 1/2 tweener cum a very good 2nd line support winger. Lombardi never "accepted" jack as he would constantly waver between an intermittent bout of urge to gush over - so settling upon veiled praise over Frolov's "jam" or musing aloud as to whether or not Alex was in it to win it or just thrilled to be NHL alive.
... and they most certainly did NOT desperately want him to play hard enough and well enough to be on the first line, else Terry Murray's initial and most prescient proclamation (regarding Frolov) of envisioning Alex and 'Zus as their checking -"shutdown" unit and his assiduous pursuit over the last two years to square peg that round hole into forced fruition was for bulls***... and can possibly loan itself to the notion that Murray really doesn't know what the f*** he is doing... which was in part on GLORIOUS display as he got his coaching ass waxed in the playoffs.
the Kings lost for a variety of reasons, most of which due to inexperience. but Murray was ridiculously out-coached.
And that says more about Frolov than anyone else. Hundreds, if not thousands of NHLers have gone thru similar (not exact, but similar) troubling times and they play just fine. Some even win Norris Trophies (yes, I'm looking right at Chris Chelios).
Frolov should have played harder and better. If he did, he'd still be a King and would probably have a 7 yr $40M+ contract right now.
you know that the climate was a bit different and the circumstances surrounding THAT particular issue was a little more sensitive concerning all involved.
and it should be at least considered that it may not have mattered WHAT he had done and the only way it would have worked out for Alex IN Los Angeles would have been if he would have completely capitulated.
maybe Lombardi should have read harder and better... or perhaps even finished the book.
Aw man, I like getting up that early. The house is quiet with the wife and kids still asleep, so I can relax and walk around naked...
Ok then. My overall perspective is that the semi-free market of free agency in sports means EVERY free agent gets their market value. We can all say it's not commensurate with their abilities, achievements, and potential (both too high and too low, depending on the player), but every single one gets exactly what they're worth.
Methinks you are stuck in 2007 when that's what he was - on a mediocre Kings team.Frolov was, is and always has been a 1/2 tweener cum a very good 2nd line support winger. Lombardi never "accepted" jack as he would constantly waver between an intermittent bout of urge to gush over - so settling upon veiled praise over Frolov's "jam" or musing aloud as to whether or not Alex was in it to win it or just thrilled to be NHL alive.
You know as well as I do that Frolov is one of those guys who is mostly just happy to be in the NHL. He simply doesn't have the drive to play at his best often enough to be a key player.
I agree he's a support player but I think he's a 2/3 tweener (like Modin) and not a 1/2 tweener. He just doesn't work hard enough to be a #1 except in a pinch.
Wow, do you honestly believe they didn't want him to play well enough and hard enough to be the #1 left wing? That they pegged him as a 3rd liner and WANTED him to play that role instead of taking the bull by the horns and playing so well he'd be the #1 left wing?... and they most certainly did NOT desperately want him to play hard enough and well enough to be on the first line
I find it astonishing that you could actually believe that.
There is no doubt in my mind at all that they desperately wanted him to play so well he'd be the #1 left wing.
IMO they (and by "they" I mean Taylor, Murray, Lombardi, Crawford, Murray, and to some degree every coach and person in management) tried and tried and tried to motivate Frolov to be a #1 LW and they finally gave up some time after they acquired Smyth.else Terry Murray's initial and most prescient proclamation (regarding Frolov) of envisioning Alex and 'Zus as their checking -"shutdown" unit and his assiduous pursuit over the last two years to square peg that round hole into forced fruition was for bulls***... and can possibly loan itself to the notion that Murray really doesn't know what the f*** he is doing... which was in part on GLORIOUS display as he got his coaching ass waxed in the playoffs.
In general I believe people can't be motivated for anything but short stretches. They can be de-motivated (by bad managers/coaches), but long-term motivation comes from within. And I just don't believe that all those people on the Kings failed with Frolov where they succeeded with others like Visnovsky, Norstrom, Blake, Schneider, Kopitar, Brown, Smyth, Doughty, and now apparently Johnson.
But the pressure to perform in adversity sure wasn't - but I'm assuming you know the Chelios circumstances.you know that the climate was a bit different and the circumstances surrounding THAT particular issue was a little more sensitive concerning all involved.
I couldn't disagree more. Frolov would have worked out spectacularly well if he worked consistently harder. He didn't need to be Mark Messier, he just needed to play more often like winning mattered.and it should be at least considered that it may not have mattered WHAT he had done and the only way it would have worked out for Alex IN Los Angeles would have been if he would have completely capitulated.
Sure, it's each of the 5 boss's faults for Frolov's failures...players shouldn't be responsible for their own motivation, effort, consistency, and production. They should be handed everything and never held accountable. That's a great way to run a team.maybe Lombardi should have read harder and better... or perhaps even finished the book.
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