Thread: Shea Weber agrees to offer sheet with Philadelphia. 14 years/$110M. Predators Match!!

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Ok...fair enough. But, and excuse me if I wrong, wasn't Radulov already theirs anyway? Didn't they bring him back basically for nothing? Not a real risk there and if it had panned out there is nothing wrong with adding firepower going into the playoffs.
The Kostitsyns, well, once again, not a prime location for free agents so sometimes you have to take risks. Once again, if it had paid off...
Suter was going to leave regardless. Yes, you can trade him before the playoffs, but see my other argument earlier about how that would have been lose/lose.
And Weber? You really think everyone knew that Philly(or anyone) was going to sign him to an offer sheet? Let's see how that plays out before we call it...still think Preds could match, and they just might. If not, that is 4 more first rounders in the system. With a very good scouting system(apparently) Nashville will take an immediate hit, but may be healthier in the long run. In that market as long as they stay in the hunt they will remain relevant therefore putting butts in the seats. I just can't see scuttling what has been a good thing(despite the recent storm of hits). The only real thing this has pointed out is that there are clear divisions between the haves and have nots despite Gary ballsinyermouth Bettman's protestations to the contrary. And yeah, kind of odd that Snider is one of the most vocal about players salaries while he continues to set records in the offseason for free agents. 'Save us from ourselves' yet again.

Maybe I am in the minority but I didn't like the idea of bring back Radulov mid season. They had great chemistry and a strong identity which was lost once he came aboard. It is no surprise he won't be in the NHL next year, and I have never liked his character. He is a great talent but he is not a guy I would want on my team for the same reasons he left and got busted in PHX. It seemed low risk but proved that it wasn't.

I think the first Kostitsin was fine, the 2nd wasn't. As we saw from their former team. I didn't like the addition on the 2nd brother.

As for Weber; it was documented that they were given warning about the offer sheet (although short notice), he was working on a trade which leads me to believe he knew he couldn't sign him. It was too little too late in attempting a trade and sounds like he was holding out for more then he could realistically get (my assumption).

Now, I agree with taking risks, and maybe he had some bad luck involved here. With that said, they are either going to go into next season without Suter AND Weber with nothing to show except a re-build in a tough hockey market or will commit an insane amount of money to Weber for 1 year and then probably have to try to trade him when he asks for it.

A major part of their success is going to be gone, they will have taken two steps backwards. As an Owner I would give someone else a chance to create the team and use those 1st rounders to strengthen the team.

As I said, two many big risks/gambles in a short period of time. Can always say "what if, or it could have" but the fact is it didn't and with Weber possibly gone, their identity will take a major hit. I just don't think his risks were calculated enough.

A calculated risk is bringing on a guy like Sykora, or Ethan Moreau, etc. Low risk good reward.

I understand your points and respect them, but I think too much damage was done for him to stay at the helm regardless of which way this goes with Weber. It is tough for them to match that contract knowing they may have to trade Weber next year.

Regarding Poile and the job he's done...

I think he was kind of damned if you do damned if you don't in regards to Suter. If you think you're going to go deep in the playoffs even though he's heading into UFA, it's hard to trade him. At the same time, as Kings fans, everyone here saw what losing Palffy, Allison, and Deadmarsh and getting nothing in return for those guys can do to a team (granted they were lost due to injuries but losing stars and getting nothing back hurts big time). He also had to know that losing Suter was going to make it extremely hard to re-sign Weber.

Could Poile have gotten a good return at the deadline for Suter even though he was a potential UFA? I think so. Teams usually are willing to overpay at the deadline and I think some teams would have liked the chance to use those extra few months as an exclusive negotiating period. Detroit probably would have killed for the chance of getting Suter at the end of February and having until July to woo him, knowing Lidstrom was likely to hang them up. I'm also curious if he had traded Suter's negotiating rights at the end of the season what he would have been able to get. I think he might have even been able to get a bidding war going for those for that exclusive window to negotiate. By the middle of June, if it doesn't look like something is going to work out, see what you can get for his rights. Something is better than nothing. I think again there would have been quite a few teams to offer things up for a 10-15 day window of exclusive negotiation rights.

Regarding Weber, that might have been a little more screwed up. I understand why they took him to arbitration last summer, to prevent an offer sheet then. At the same time, they should have seen the offer sheet coming this summer as soon as Suter left. If I were an RFA this summer or had 1 year left on a deal before becoming a UFA, I'd be looking for the longest contract possible before the CBA changes. They had to know Weber was going to be looking for one of those lifetime type deals now. Heck, Nashville might have been better off letting him sign an offer sheet last summer before the cap went up again this offseason. Now there's an interesting situation to think about. If Nashville hadn't taken Weber to arbitration last summer and he signed an offer sheet that Nashville matched, with Rinne locked up, they could have gone to Suter and said, "Well here's your goalie and other star defenseman locked up, what do you want contract wise?"

Originally Posted by Dana

Regarding Poile and the job he's done...

I think he was kind of damned if you do damned if you don't in regards to Suter. If you think you're going to go deep in the playoffs even though he's heading into UFA, it's hard to trade him. At the same time, as Kings fans, everyone here saw what losing Palffy, Allison, and Deadmarsh and getting nothing in return for those guys can do to a team (granted they were lost due to injuries but losing stars and getting nothing back hurts big time). He also had to know that losing Suter was going to make it extremely hard to re-sign Weber.

Could Poile have gotten a good return at the deadline for Suter even though he was a potential UFA? I think so. Teams usually are willing to overpay at the deadline and I think some teams would have liked the chance to use those extra few months as an exclusive negotiating period. Detroit probably would have killed for the chance of getting Suter at the end of February and having until July to woo him, knowing Lidstrom was likely to hang them up. I'm also curious if he had traded Suter's negotiating rights at the end of the season what he would have been able to get. I think he might have even been able to get a bidding war going for those for that exclusive window to negotiate. By the middle of June, if it doesn't look like something is going to work out, see what you can get for his rights. Something is better than nothing. I think again there would have been quite a few teams to offer things up for a 10-15 day window of exclusive negotiation rights.

Regarding Weber, that might have been a little more screwed up. I understand why they took him to arbitration last summer, to prevent an offer sheet then. At the same time, they should have seen the offer sheet coming this summer as soon as Suter left. If I were an RFA this summer or had 1 year left on a deal before becoming a UFA, I'd be looking for the longest contract possible before the CBA changes. They had to know Weber was going to be looking for one of those lifetime type deals now. Heck, Nashville might have been better off letting him sign an offer sheet last summer before the cap went up again this offseason. Now there's an interesting situation to think about. If Nashville hadn't taken Weber to arbitration last summer and he signed an offer sheet that Nashville matched, with Rinne locked up, they could have gone to Suter and said, "Well here's your goalie and other star defenseman locked up, what do you want contract wise?"

Good point, I can't really blame him for Suter though. Last year looked like their best chance to make a run. Even though they may have got a good player in return, it would have been really tough to deal him at that time. Only thing he could have tried to do was trade his rights after the season ended, which wouldn't have given them much worthwhile.

I like your point about Weber last year. That was the writing on the wall, which is why I think that even if they match Weber, this is going to be a hard relationship to mend, which is why I see Poile needing to go either way. Ownership is going to make the decision to match or not match, nit Poile. If they decide to match they are thinking he is part of the franchise for a long time and the Poile Weber relationship cannot be good. It's a lot of money to keep Weber and then trade him.

My guess is if they were going to match, they already would have.

Well you drag out the not matching because it keeps Philly from making other moves this week. Like if Anaheim decides this weekend to pull the trigger on a Bobby Ryan trade, Philly's got those picks up in the air, which is going to make it hard for them to make that move while waiting for Nashville to match or not. Plus I think Nashville is going to drag it out to see if Philly will perhaps agree to a trade where Nashville doesn't match and then flips some of the picks back to Philly for players.

Or Nashville needs to do some financial maneuvering to see if they can come up with the upfront cash in the next calendar year.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

well then you make even more of a pro-Poile argument. Howson has really mismanaged that team. Think about all the high draft picks...you almost have to succeed by accident at some point. I just don't get the anti-Poile sentiment. Most GMs have their good/bad ledgers and if you honestly look at Nashville's record you can only judge it one way.

As far as keeping him, the Flyers did Poile a favor arguably by giving Nashville an opportunity to sign their captain long term. The numbers aren't great but everywhere you look it would seem that Nashville could conceivably get it done. Whether he is going to be a sulky sally is another thing entirely.

Columbus and Nashville have been night and day since they came in.

I'm not making the argument that Poile and Company have done as poorly as Columbus. Maclean and now Howson totally mismanaged the draft and development over the years. Things have changed, and they didn't change with the times. Go read Potential Greats and Heartbreaks if you need some more background.

Originally Posted by aaron

there is no way any of the Nashville management is/should be on the firing line.

If they were truly intent on jumping into the contender status, Poile should have locked both of those 2 up last summer. I'm not saying they both needed $100M money, but I'm pretty sure a 7 year $50M contract signed last summer would have gotten the deal done. If both of them said they wanted to test the free agent waters, then he had to move them a year (or two) early when he could have controlled the market.

Originally Posted by Dana

Well you drag out the not matching because it keeps Philly from making other moves this week. Like if Anaheim decides this weekend to pull the trigger on a Bobby Ryan trade, Philly's got those picks up in the air, which is going to make it hard for them to make that move while waiting for Nashville to match or not. Plus I think Nashville is going to drag it out to see if Philly will perhaps agree to a trade where Nashville doesn't match and then flips some of the picks back to Philly for players.

Or Nashville needs to do some financial maneuvering to see if they can come up with the upfront cash in the next calendar year.

Guys, the CBA won't allow for this once the offer sheet is signed. Nashville's only choices are to match or to take the 4 first round picks. That's it.

Originally Posted by KINGS17

Guys, the CBA won't allow for this once the offer sheet is signed. Nashville's only choices are to match or to take the 4 first round picks. That's it.

They should change that and allow teams to trade the rights in those 7 days. Nashville doesn't want 4 picks strung out over the next 4 years. They want NHL caliber players.

Or better yet, let them move him to the Oilers for a couple of those kids and a pick, so that Weber is exiled to Siberia to finish out his playing days.

i too would be much more inclined to give the lion's share of credit of what Nashville has managed to accomplish to Barry Trotz.

IF we are to operate under the assumption that Suter was going to leave as an unrestricted free agent in 2012, the onus would have been on Poile to be prescient enough as to anticipate a MAJOR issue regarding Weber this summer as well when they opted on club-elect arbitration last year. that move meant two things; 1. Weber chooses the term length - 1 or 2 years (Weber chose one-year), and 2. given that Weber was awarded a 1-year deal meant that he'd again be an RFA in 2012, only with arbitration rights in HIS court, and the Predators having lost the last bit of RFA control are now vulnerable to having their star defenseman being signed to an offer sheet... with their #2 defenseman standing to walk away unrestricted.

the Kostitsyn deal wasn't nearly as bad as the Radulov thing - which was a disaster... and make it a thousand and one, i HATE that sort of play, and i think it should not be allowed regardless of whether or not the team owns that player's rights. i said it was stupid when they did it, and it's stupid now. follow Nashville's record and trajectory pre-Radulov, and look at it afterward - including the playoffs, where they beat a Red Wings team that i personally believed completely gassed itself with that whole home record thing, and were too old, not as deep, and not as experienced in net as in the past to maintain long enough to out second wind their opponents.

i DO honestly think it may be time for Poile to go. or, the Burton/Depp of he and Trotz to be split up... which would mean Barry goes if Poile doesn't.

Originally Posted by KINGS17

Guys, the CBA won't allow for this once the offer sheet is signed. Nashville's only choices are to match or to take the 4 first round picks. That's it.

Ladies

You are correct in that Nashville can either match the offer sheet OR take the 4 1sts as compensation according to the CBA. However, there is nothing stopping Nashville and Philly from working out a separate deal where Nashville doesn't match, gets 4 1sts from Philly, and then turns around and trades some or all of those picks back to Philly for players. It would be two separate transactions. Philly did that in 97. They signed Chris Gratton to an offer sheet, Tampa didn't match, got a bunch of picks, then traded the picks back to Philly for players.