Thread: Shoulda Oughta Knew Better...Raffi Torres.

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

A banana in a Simmonds jersey would be HILARIOUS!

It would only be offensive if that incident hadn't happened... but that incident DID happen.

See but therein lies the problem Doc. I am absolutely sure that the mongoloid who threw the bananas on the ice at Simmonds felt the same way you do. I have been trying to say...PERCEPTION!!!!! And not everyone is as smart as all the 'oh get over it' folks on this board.

only if you carry a Louis Vuitton purse.

Originally Posted by Unruely35

are there any black people in the room that can comment on this?

Doesn't seem like it at the moment. However, I'll ask Grant Fuhr about it if I ever meet him.

Originally Posted by Unruely35

are there any black people in the room that can comment on this?

Since this thread is already wildly out of control..... I'll go ahead and ask this and hope that you receive it in the sincere manner in which it's intended...

Should it really matter who the "offended party" is when determining whether or not something should be considered "over the line"? Or are we proposing that because the plight of African Americans in America is so different and so unique that no other human beings can ever over comment or opinion on the matter because they have no possible way of ever understanding how it might feel?

I've always been curious about this.

I'm a White American Male born in the golden era of prosperity and wealth. As such I've led an insanely privileged life.

HOWEVER...

I'm also an asthmatic, a child of divorce, Jewish, bald, have poor eyesight and as an adult have become (arguably) morbidly obese. I'm also somewhat unpleasant in general. Consequently I find myself, or others who share certain traits with me, to be the butt of endless petty and relatively unfunny or uncreative jokes and stereotypes. Sometimes I'm offended... sometimes I'm not... but I find it usually depends on what I think the intent behind the joke or outright insult is and I find that I feel pretty much the same way in judging jokes that lampoon others.

EDIT : And also... I find that I'm incredibly forgiving if what ever was said or done was actually really really funny or inventive. As one of my personal heroes says ""you always forgive smart and funny" /EDIT

I guess I've always just wondered if I'm missing something in the "Black Experience" that would render that process somehow invalid.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

See but therein lies the problem Doc. I am absolutely sure that the mongoloid who threw the bananas on the ice at Simmonds felt the same way you do. I have been trying to say...PERCEPTION!!!!! And not everyone is as smart as all the 'oh get over it' folks on this board.

If I've learned anything from therapy and 12 step groups it's that you can't control how other people think or feel... and you shouldn't try or spend much time worrying about it.

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

Since this thread is already wildly out of control..... I'll go ahead and ask this and hope that you receive it in the sincere manner in which it's intended...

Should it really matter who the "offended party" is when determining whether or not something should be considered "over the line"? Or are we proposing that because the plight of African Americans in America is so different and so unique that no other human beings can ever over comment or opinion on the matter because they have no possible way of ever understanding how it might feel?

I've always been curious about this.

I'm a White American Male born in the golden era of prosperity and wealth. As such I've led an insanely privileged life.

HOWEVER...

I'm also an asthmatic, a child of divorce, Jewish, bald, have poor eyesight and as an adult have become (arguably) morbidly obese. I'm also somewhat unpleasant in general. Consequently I find myself, or others who share certain traits with me, to be the butt of endless petty and relatively unfunny or uncreative jokes and stereotypes. Sometimes I'm offended... sometimes I'm not... but I find it usually depends on what I think the intent behind the joke or outright insult is and I find that I feel pretty much the same way in judging jokes that lampoon others.

I guess I've always just wondered if I'm missing something in the "Black Experience" that would render that process somehow invalid.

My brother...you need a hug.

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

If I've learned anything from therapy and 12 step groups it's that you can't control how other people think or feel... and you shouldn't try or spend much time worrying about it.

Yes, you are right...I often find myself tilting at windmills. What can I say, I have an exaggerrated sense of justice.

Originally Posted by Unruely35

are there any black people in the room that can comment on this?

Sorry, I don't see color.

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

Since this thread is already wildly out of control..... I'll go ahead and ask this and hope that you receive it in the sincere manner in which it's intended...

Should it really matter who the "offended party" is when determining whether or not something should be considered "over the line"? Or are we proposing that because the plight of African Americans in America is so different and so unique that no other human beings can ever over comment or opinion on the matter because they have no possible way of ever understanding how it might feel?

I've always been curious about this.

I'm a White American Male born in the golden era of prosperity and wealth. As such I've led an insanely privileged life.

HOWEVER...

I'm also an asthmatic, a child of divorce, Jewish, bald, have poor eyesight and as an adult have become (arguably) morbidly obese. I'm also somewhat unpleasant in general. Consequently I find myself, or others who share certain traits with me, to be the butt of endless petty and relatively unfunny or uncreative jokes and stereotypes. Sometimes I'm offended... sometimes I'm not... but I find it usually depends on what I think the intent behind the joke or outright insult is and I find that I feel pretty much the same way in judging jokes that lampoon others.

EDIT : And also... I find that I'm incredibly forgiving if what ever was said or done was actually really really funny or inventive. As one of my personal heroes says ""you always forgive smart and funny" /EDIT

I guess I've always just wondered if I'm missing something in the "Black Experience" that would render that process somehow invalid.

Seriously, I wasnt gonna get into this... but since you've written me somwhat of a golden invitation I have no choice, eh?

So, first Id like to say that I think Raffi Torres and his girlfriend had brilliant costumes. I wasnt offended by them in the least.

Id like to also add that I dont speak for all black people. Youve seen me, so I dont have to get too deep into descriptions, but being light and female has given me a pass in some instances (pass, see what I did there?) and dug me some pretty ****ed up holes in others. As a rule, I think everyone, no matter what the background, is driven by their own individual morals and values. How one was raised, where and with whom will generally drive how they feel. In these questions of "racism or no", I think there really is no accounting for taste. Its all very personal. With that being said, I think perspective definitely gives weight and value to some issues and this is one of them.

I think you, being a white male in this world will have a very different perspective on some things than my brother who is 6'4". 250 lbs of milk chocolate toned black male. Ive been pulled over (as a passenger) and had my car searched because my brother and two cousins looked "suspicious". No, he wasnt speeding, my tags were in check and I didnt have a tail light out. Ive sped on the same road and been pulled over by the EXACT same guy and got let off with a warning after barely a glance at my DL. There is definitely a defining intangible of being Black in this country. People can say "get over it" or "let it go", but until youve lived a day in that skin to hear the comments, watch people cross a street specifically to avoid you, or see the hatred and judgement pouring from people's faces just because youre there... you may have a horse in the race, but you own it and youre off to the side watching while someone else is the jockey. Living a life where youre constantly reminded that you are assumed subordinate or less worthy will make some people more sensitive than others in cases like this. So, while I am not personally offended by Raffi Torres' choice in costume, I will not begrudge anyone else calling it a poor choice.