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Don't blame just Van for that. Many of the worst offenders in that display of idiocy were from other parts of BC (Victoria, Duncan, Surrey...yadda yadda yadda...)Originally Posted by Byatch1979
I guess I am the opposite of you. Have spent considerable amount of time in Calgary and Van and would chose Vancouver 10 times out of 10.
(agree w/ the rent part though... it's ridiculous)
To each their own.
This is an invalid comparison.
First off the situations were not the same.
Second, the Vancouver riots were a setup.
Let's deal with issue one: If Calgary had 100k+ people in a fairly confined area with free flowing booze, undermanned police presence, and here is the wild card, people who purposely incited rioting (more on that later) and they did not act in the same way as the folks in Vancouver did you night have an argument. But Calgary was nothing like that.
To make your point you have to make level comparisons. Now you might claim that folks in Calgary would not riot even in the same exact situation. Most likely you would be wrong. The people who study rioting/mob violence note that such behavior is not unique to certain ethnic groups or even certain cities: if the right conditions are met any group of people in any place in the world can riot.
Some call it "human behavioral phenomena" because it is so out of the norm of human behavior and also it can happen anywhere. That is not to say every person will riot if the situation is right, but there are certain people of every group that can riot. And it can spread like an infection and make people who are normally law abiding join in.
If Calgary had the same things going after its game 7 it is a pretty good bet that a riot would have occurred.
Now issue two: The claim was made that the people who rioted "were not hockey fans". It be taken further: some of them were not actually from Vancouver.
Case in point: Calgary man charged in Vancouver riot - Calgary - CBC News
Note that the guy from Calgary is "charged with possessing a weapon dangerous to the public peace in connection with an incident where two men were stabbed on Hornby Street."
There were also guys who arrested from the riots from Toronto and Montreal. There were a few others from Seattle and Portland.
It was reported that some of these had backpacks with goggles, ski masks, rocks, and small bottles of gasoline. It was also reported that some of these guys had been arrested in the G8 riots that happened last year in Toronto.
In other words a "riot crew" of nutty anti-government/anti-capitalist loons came to Vancouver to make trouble. They had the experience and the know how to spark a riot. They have no doubt read the books about rioting and mob violence and know what to do to stir things up.
Now of course these were not the only guys who rioted, others took part too and that should not be minimized, but recall what I said about how rioting can spread like an infection.
Now take into account how it was mishandled on almost every level by VPD...........
If you had the same situation, 100k people, limited space, lots of booze, insufficient police presence/late police reaction, for lack of a better term, "professional rioters" who incited things it is almost certain there would be a riot in, not only Calgary, but any city in the world.
Last edited by Kings Provisional; July 4th, 2011 at 12:55 AM.
Ok, you've officially thought about this too much. It's just my opinion. Bottom line: Van's known for this kind of thing, Calgary isn't. Until that changes, my opinion won't.
No, Calgary was not like that. Not at all. That's why **** like this doesn't go down in Calgary.Let's deal with issue one: If Calgary had 100k+ people in a fairly confined area with free flowing booze, undermanned police presence, and here is the wild card, people who purposely incited rioting (more on that later) and they did not act in the same way as the folks in Vancouver did you night have an argument. But Calgary was nothing like that.
Sure, but they didn't.To make your point you have to make level comparisons. Now you might claim that folks in Calgary would not riot even in the same exact situation. Most likely you would be wrong. The people who study rioting/mob violence note that such behavior is not unique to certain ethnic groups or even certain cities: if the right conditions are met any group of people in any place in the world can riot.
Some call it "human behavioral phenomena" because it is so out of the norm of human behavior and also it can happen anywhere. That is not to say every person will riot if the situation is right, but there are certain people of every group that can riot. And it can spread like an infection and make people who are normally law abiding join in.
If Calgary had the same things going after its game 7 it is a pretty good bet that a riot would have occurred.
Yes, I heard about these guys too. Some of them also made trouble at the Olympics. Vancouver attracts these types. It's part of the vibe there.Again, Calgary didn't have that going.
Now issue two: The claim was made that the people who rioted "were not hockey fans". It be taken further: some of them were not actually from Vancouver.
Case in point: Calgary man charged in Vancouver riot - Calgary - CBC News
Note that the guy from Calgary is "charged with possessing a weapon dangerous to the public peace in connection with an incident where two men were stabbed on Hornby Street."
There were also guys who arrested from the riots from Toronto and Montreal. There were a few others from Seattle and Portland.
It was reported that some of these had backpacks with goggles, ski masks, rocks, and small bottles of gasoline. It was also reported that some of these guys had been arrested in the G8 riots that happened last year in Toronto.
In other words a "riot crew" of nutty anti-government/anti-capitalist loons came to Vancouver to make trouble. They had the experience and the know how to spark a riot. They have no doubt read the books about rioting and mob violence and know what to do to stir things up.
No, it can't be minimized at all.Now of course these were not the only guys who rioted, others took part too and that should not be minimized, but recall what I said about how rioting can spread like an infection.
Really? How so?Now take into account how it was mishandled on almost every level by VPD...........
Exactly, so what's your point? I realize we're all human and all, but this stuff happens in Vancouver. That can't be disputed. It didn't happen in Calgary. That can't be disputed either. Am I comparing apples and oranges because there were different factors involved? I don't think so because I was just generalizing about two Canadian cities that lost in game 7 of the Stanley Cup.If you had the same situation, 100k people, limited space, lots of booze, insufficient police presence/late police reaction, for lack of a better term, "professional rioters" who incited things it is almost certain there would be a riot in, not only Calgary, but any city in the world.
I was on the Red Mile when Calgary lost. It was still a fun and friendly time, and I'll never forget it. I was proud of how the city came together and partied hard but not stupid. After the Olympics, it appeared that Van had changed. I guess not. The hooligans still come out at night and the rest let it happen.
I'm glad I don't live there and will never live there again. I'll let you know when Calgary lets me down.
For the better part of the past two days I have made the long tedious drive from Van to LA. So I have had lots of time to mull things over, cut me a break.
Oh yeah?
** List of riots and civil unrest in Calgary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So what "vibe' I am I supposed to get from that list? That Calgary is a hotbed of racial tension and anti-globalization strife?
The point is it did not go down in Calgary because the situation was not the same, not because the folks are Calgary are somehow different people than those in other Canadian cities.
And that is were we are at our basic disagreement. It is not a "vibe" that causes these troubles and Vancouver "attracts" these types only because it is a bigger city than Calgary. All big cites have more problems than smaller cities, not because of a "vibe", it is simple numbers.
By all accounts VPD did not have enough police officers for the size of the crowd. When the trouble started those on the scene did not act quickly and reinforcements were late. Then it was decided to close of the area and not let anyone leave, the idea being let the rioters "riot themselves out". So you had a-holes acting with almost impunity at some spots and thousands of people who wanted no part of the mayhem with no where to go.
My point is exactly you are comparing apples and oranges. You simply cannot compare what happened happened between the two cities because the situation was so different.
The bottom line is the Olympics went down with no trouble, Canada Day just happened and huge crowds were in downtown Vancouver with little or no trouble, I submit to you that those events are the true "vibe" of the city, not the riots that took place after game 7. Why were they different? A few important factors but mainly you did not have a guy from Calgary stabbing people around Hornby Street.
Ok, I will. I've been known to mull LGK on long drives too
Did you even read anything on that list? There was nothing in the last 50 years that was on the scale of what happened in Van and I don't know about before because I didn't bother looking that far. Would you really want to compare the riot history of both cities?Oh yeah?
** List of riots and civil unrest in Calgary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So what "vibe' I am I supposed to get from that list? That Calgary is a hotbed of racial tension and anti-globalization strife?
Do you agree that cities have reputations that reflect their character? Face it, this whole riot business is reflective of certain aspects of Vancouver's character. You have to admit the good with the bad. Is Van not known as a hockey-loving, Starbucks-drinking, tree-hugging, Liberal-voting, Marijuana-smoking, protest-having, Asian-friendly kind of place? I think we both know it is.And that is were we are at our basic disagreement. It is not a "vibe" that causes these troubles and Vancouver "attracts" these types only because it is a bigger city than Calgary. All big cites have more problems than smaller cities, not because of a "vibe", it is simple numbers.
24 Hours: Unfair to slam Chu over riot patrolBy all accounts VPD did not have enough police officers for the size of the crowd. When the trouble started those on the scene did not act quickly and reinforcements were late. Then it was decided to close of the area and not let anyone leave, the idea being let the rioters "riot themselves out". So you had a-holes acting with almost impunity at some spots and thousands of people who wanted no part of the mayhem with no where to go.
Notice near the bottom when it says that Van PD is smaller than Calgary PD? Maybe that's part of the problem, especially for a city Vancouver's size. Like I've said before, it doesn't happen like that in Cow Town... and as I've experienced, not over a hockey game like has now happened in Van twice.
Anyway, I heard all about closing the bridges and people getting stuck down there and I don't think too many innocents got trapped, especially if you consider the lookey-loos not innocent. I've been in Van when a riot was shaping up and you would have had to have been an idiot not to see it coming, and not to know what to do.
Fans Riot After Guns N' Roses Tour Kickoff Canceled: Kurt Loder Reports - Music, Celebrity, Artist News | MTV
The same thing applies with this riot. All my friends made it out of downtown ok and the only ones who didn't were working at the time and weren't off shift (bars, restaurants). Their respective business places just locked up and kept them inside until was over. You would have had to have been completely naive to be trapped down there with the crazies, or just have lingered too long, which also makes an idiot.
I don't know about you, but when I sense a riot gathering steam, I know it's not cool to just hang around and watch... But then again, I'm not a Vancouverite anymore.
Can't help but see this as a cheap shot of some sort, but you know it's as irrelevant as I do so it doesn't matter.My point is exactly you are comparing apples and oranges. You simply cannot compare what happened happened between the two cities because the situation was so different.
The bottom line is the Olympics went down with no trouble, Canada Day just happened and huge crowds were in downtown Vancouver with little or no trouble, I submit to you that those events are the true "vibe" of the city, not the riots that took place after game 7. Why were they different? A few important factors but mainly you did not have a guy from Calgary stabbing people around Hornby Street.
You have your perception of Van, I have mine... and if I remember correctly, you didn't live there most of your life.
It lists race toubles in 2008 And anti G8 trouble in 2000 and 2002. But see below.
I can only can go by what I heard and more than one source did criticize VPD and state that tons of people were stuck with no where to go.
And as I said before I honestly beleive that the nutty trouble makers did have big role in starting the trouble. The Olympics had no such trouble and Canada went off with out a hitch.
Of course it was a cheap shot, as was my listing the "riots and civil unrest" list of Calgary. I was intentionally being over the top and ridiculous with this. Like said I have been to Calgary and like the place. It is ridiculous to try to paint it as a place of racial tension. It is even more ridiculous to try to say that the Vancouver riots were started because a guy from Calgary was stabbing people in downtown Vancouver.
It is show that anyone can bash, badmouth, and trash a place if they are determined to. And in my opinion you sorta did that with Vancouver in your previous posts. I did to Calgary what I beleive you did to Vancouver, granted I was a bit more over the top but I think the point stands. You have have your perception of Van and like I said before I am sure you have your reasons, it just seemed you went overboard in your comments about the city and the poeple who live there.
Last edited by Kings Provisional; July 5th, 2011 at 09:11 AM.
I know, I saw that. But those were more or less friendly protests, not what happened in Van over a hockey game.
You were reaching badly, even if just to make a ridiculous point.
Yes, that did happen, but as I stated before, those that were still around were the lookey-loos and the completely clueless.I can only can go by what I heard and more than one source did criticize VPD and state that tons of people were stuck with no where to go.
No doubt, but look, the Olympics had trouble tooAnd as I said before I honestly beleive that the nutty trouble makers did have big role in starting the trouble. The Olympics had no such trouble and Canada went off with out a hitch.
Olympic protest brings violence, vandalism to downtown Vancouver | Vancouver, Canada | Straight.com
And I'll admit to hearing that some of this was from the same out of towners who caused trouble after the hockey game. My point? Nothing except for Vans the place where this always seems to happen. Right or wrong, the city has a rep for a reason and being bigger than Calgary is just one of them.
Yup, my opinion is my opinion and that's too bad it bothers you because I don't see it changing anytime soon.Of course it was a cheap shot, as was my listing the "riots and civil unrest" list of Calgary. I was intentionally being over the top and ridiculous with this. Like said I have been to Calgary and like the place. It is ridiculous to try to paint it as a place of racial tension. It is even more ridiculous to try to say that the Vancouver riots were started because a guy from Calgary was stabbing people in downtown Vancouver.
It is show that anyone can bash, badmouth, and trash a place if they are determined to. And in my opinion you sorta did that with Vancouver in your previous posts. I did to Calgary what I beleive you did to Vancouver, granted I was a bit more over the top but I think the point stands. You have have your perception of Van and like I said before I am sure you have your reasons, it just seemed you went overboard in your comments about the city and the poeple who live there.
I also have no problem painting the city and the hockey team with the same brush, especially when posting on a Kings hockey board. I've always hated the Canucks for various reasons but never so much as after this playoff run. The city I'm truthfully indifferent to, even if I think it's grossly overrated due to the ridiculous housing costs when compared to Calgary (Which I enjoy everything about more, even the weather) . But when I see riots and **** after losing a hockey game and I think about my experiences on the Red Mile, right or wrong, I gotta say something.
So no more thinking about me on road trips, ok?
Protests involving the Aryan Guard are never "friendly", they are more are less race riots. And I happened to be in Canada when the G8 protests happened in Calgaryand again they anything but "friendly'.
I only reached slightly more than you did on some of your posts. In my view, some of your statements at first bordered the ridiculous.
I was thinking more about the huge crowd that showed up for the Gold Medal Game when I made my comment-
But overall the trouble was relatively small, almost every Olympics has at least some trouble, but overall I think the Van Olympics were ok.
It does not bother me I just thought your statements were overboard.
Ok sure, but I gotta say something too from my experince
Off topic a bit: when you where there on the Red Mile was the reports about lots of hotties taking off their shirts true? I saw a pic or two. But was it as wide spread as reported? I honestly don't mean as a some sort of shot, because if it true I think it is pretty cool. I am European in my view of such things and think North Americans are a bit uptight about it.
It was not so much about you, more about the subject over all.
You know what you're referencing was nothing like the riot in Van and you said it yourself that you're reaching. You disagree with my opinions, that fine, but I don't know what all this is proving.
I agree. All in all, the Olympics did go very well. And I can tell you that all of Canada blew a collective sigh of relief because with Van, it's never a given...I was thinking more about the huge crowd that showed up for the Gold Medal Game when I made my comment-
But overall the trouble was relatively small, almost every Olympics has at least some trouble, but overall I think the Van Olympics were ok.
But what if Canada had lost the gold medal? Thankfully we'll never know but by now you know that I'm going to say that things easily could have gotten ugly.
Yes it was true. Boobies were everywhere. The only downside however there was no quality control going on so you had to take the good with the bad. I'm serious when I say that I have never seen such a large crowd gathered with such a positive vibe (There's that word again) happening. Boobies can do that. It was an unbelievably awesome time.Off topic a bit: when you where there on the Red Mile was the reports about lots of hotties taking off their shirts true? I saw a pic or two. But was it as wide spread as reported? I honestly don't mean as a some sort of shot, because if it true I think it is pretty cool. I am European in my view of such things and think North Americans are a bit uptight about it.
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