May 31st, 2011, 06:46 PM #91
The sense of entitlement has reached critical mass up in that part of the world hasn't it. I think its a bad idea and the whole deal if you look into some numbers kindda makes the deal stink of a rat and its not just Bettman the usual suspect.
I saw a video last night, can't seem to find it on youtube at the moment but I'll keep looking where the guy compared attendance numbers and sponsoship revenues for a lot of teams to the Thrashers and also went over some of the league by laws pertaining to due diligence before consideration of relocation. The video is obviously biased toward the Atlanta fans keeping their team, its a little cheap and cheezily constructed but if those are indeed the numbers and applicable league bylaws involved....then a shady deal might have gone down. I also seriously question how easily the league let this go down and they've dug in so hard against Phoenix leaving despite Atlanta having better attendance numbers.
Either way, I'm happy for the fans of Winnipeg having a team to an extent, but a little turned off by some of the 'yay we got OUR game back, and we should have because its OURs, victory, victory, victory, me, me mine mine' crap coming out of there.
I'm a fan of growing the game and while I think mistakes have been made, it sucks for people living in a non-traditional market that came to love the game and are losing it because of the efforts of failed millionaires. As Kings fans, that should be something we can relate to because we get the same crap, have teetered on the same edge and live in the same sort of market. But I know from growing up in SoCal how well loved the sport is among so many....even if it won't ever be #1 in the city.
I'm also on another note, as someone who is passionate about hockey and also of mixed afro-american decent, big on growing diversity in the game, and having a team in Atlanta with a very diverse population was a positive thing in my opinion. Slowly but surely the presence of teams in diverse cities will lead to diversity of interest and participation in the game. And this is a significant step back. The more limited you keep this game on a regional and ethnic basis...well...the more limited its going to be on a financial basis in the long term.
I hate when fans up there insinuate that they on an individual basis love hockey by default more than any of us just because they had the 'frozen pond in the backyard blah blah blah'. I was lucky enough to have played on a frozen pond and outdoor rinks in Switzerland but I don't think it makes me any more entitled to the game than my buddy who grew up playing roller in Antelope Valley.
It takes time, it takes patience and it takes good ownership dedicated to icing a quality product and it will take hold. Winnipeg will on the front end be full of fans waiting to get in, but what happens when the going gets rough again and it will, and the Canadian dollar goes through its own recession etc etc. Just like Atlanta, Winnipeg has had a chance before and likewise couldn't pony up to save it when push came to shove. So this being a slam dunk no brainer sureshot....I don't buy it. But enjoy Winnipeg while the team is there.
Last edited by O'Fuego; May 31st, 2011 at 09:43 PM.
May 31st, 2011, 06:52 PM #92
In other exciting relocation news, there's a lot of chatter that a group in Seattle is very interested in getting the ball rolling for getting an arena built to lure NHL team. There's quite a few hurdles toward that but glad to know its going on behind the scenes at least, I'd love to have NHL again in my new town and I think it'd do well there.
Until then the WHL will have to do haha and when I go up to Vancouver for Kings and Bruins games.
May 31st, 2011, 07:23 PM #93
Oh boy ..................
May 31st, 2011, 07:40 PM #94
^I'd bet an NHL team could do well in Portland as well.
May 31st, 2011, 08:02 PM #95
Originally Posted by Chartrand
The NHL or the Phoenix Coyotes still own that name. Had it been the Coyotes moving to Winnipeg, then yes, the team would be named the Jets.
Originally Posted by Byatch1979
I'm just going to play the Devil's Advocate here, although I do believe in what I say. Yes, the ownership did nothing to help the Thrashers. Even if the ownership did anything to help though, I feel it would've been a losing cause. Atlanta really had no business getting a hockey team to begin with, it's Atlanta. I think just about any major Candian city would be able to support an NHL team, hockey is a Canadian game. The Jets and Nordiques failed for reasons other than attendance. The Thrashers were failing, and failing miserably. By watching a Thrashers' home game, that was painfully obvious. I do understand and agree with your points about the Coyotes though. That's a franchise that is failing on an epic proportion. Watching Coyotes' home games made their failure apparent too. Watching Panthers' home games is also pretty painful to see. While it does suck for the very few Thrashers' fans there are, that's the point, there's very few of them.
Originally Posted by O'Fuego
Last edited by LOSTcauseZERO; May 31st, 2011 at 08:06 PM.
May 31st, 2011, 08:06 PM #96
I'd love to see the NHL in Portland and Seattle over Anaheim and Miami. I'm not bashing Anaheim because they are the rivals bull****, but it's quite pathetic when somehow they got my number and I can't get off their call list, and they leave me messages 4 hours before a playoff game offering me sth prices on playoff tickets. As far as Miami goes, I went there for a roller hockey tourney several years ago and the locals I asked either had no idea who the panthers were or they said the games are way too expensive. Apparently depending on the opponent, tickets start at 65 bucks a ticket... That's insane.
May 31st, 2011, 08:16 PM #97
No doubt in my mind. Its also a great sports town, I'd love to see the I-5 rivalry that could exist between Portland-Seattle-Vancouver.
Originally Posted by kingsatan
But Seattle is just quite frankly a much larger area, there's more money, more sponsorship (aside from the multitude of massive corporations that exist there) and Seattle teams are alwasy well supported. The Sonics toward the end was a similar situation to the Atlanta deal where the owner was so loathed that people refused to go see the team mainly because they refused to put anymore money in his pocket and bend to his shady dealings. It sorta backfired because the Sonics are dearly missed up here.
The hardest thing is going to be getting a new arena built (and that's a BIG thing). After Qwest and Safeco were built, the public wasn't interested (among other reasons) in financing a new arena for NBA and potentially NHL.
But the potential owners (and I'd be very interested to hear about who this Seattle group is talking to the NHL) could potentially be one of wealthiest individually in the league if it came to be. You know the names.
I'd love a team in Portland, but the case for Seattle is much stronger IMO, and not because I'm biased.
An exciting sub-plot to follow as we move forward and the Phoenix saga drags on and teams like Florida, Carolina, Columbus etc. continue to struggle financially and competitively (sans perhaps Carolina, but that cup win is wearing off fast). Tampa might have been on that list to but I think with the quick turnaround and potential to be very competitive for the next few years might have bought them some time. BEeing a Bucs fan, I can tell you that the Tampa market can swing wildly one way to the other depending on a winning team in which it can be quite lucrative. But When they aren't, its a wasteland.
I would like Quebec to get a team back, also hearing Hartford coming back up in these articles strangely enough cause I haven't heard that in years.
May 31st, 2011, 08:19 PM #98
So I've heard.
Originally Posted by LOSTcauseZERO
May 31st, 2011, 08:21 PM #99
Problem is... Canada only has 34 Million people and they've already got teams in all the "major cities".
May 31st, 2011, 08:27 PM #100
I can't really argue with the lack of fan support/attendance over the past few seasons, though I think it is justified to some extent, but I question the bolded part. The Atlanta Flames were well supported before the owner ran into financial problems and sold the team off to the highest bidder, there was ample reason to suggest that there would be sufficient fan support for a new hockey team there. The continued growth of such close-proximity markets as Nashville and Raleigh also indicate that the sport certainly can succeed that far south.
Originally Posted by LOSTcauseZERO
Now that's not saying Atlanta is a GOOD sports town by any means. By all consideration, they seem to be one of the worst metropolitan areas for sports in the country, and the people don't seem to stray far outside the football/college football comfort zone unless it's to support a winner (and even then, the Braves couldn't sell out playoff games). When you tack on a crappy economy, and an ownership group that was more interested in suing each other (and anybody else they could) than ever truly supporting the franchise, it's not really a surprise to see it end up the way it did.
That said, it could have, and should have gone differently. Despite all the factors above, I think the market was ripe for hockey, it's too bad they will never get another shot and will permanently wear the 'lost 2 franchises' label (unjustly, IMO).