Thread: Los Angeles Dodgers--Official September Thread

Originally Posted by jbruin152

(And re: the Broxton whining... things must really be going bad when we're blaming one of the best relief pitchers on this team. He's nowhere close in the blame game with why this team isn't playoff-bound.)

I wouldn't call it whining, it's pointing out a fact. He was getting the job done all year and went into a bad way at the wrong time. Nobody's blaming just him, just as I can't blame Little for sending him out there to do his job. It happens. I don't see you taking issue with people who want to blame everything on Juan Pierre, who did exactly what he was brought here to do.

Originally Posted by irisher

I've always heard that Kent is a bit of an a-hole. Scroll down twenty pictures here to see what I mean:

http://www.dodgerblues.com/content/f...s_fotofun.html

No doubt a Hall of Famer, a great 2B, a consistent perfomer, and a professional, but a leader? What exactly has Kent ever led a team to? He's abrasive and personally I think running your mouth to the papers AFTER the s*** has hit the fan is bush league.

I don't care if he is an ******* and I don't care what he says to the papers. I always thought he was an ******* to be honest, but I like having him on my team. The young guys don't have to like him but they can learn by watching him every day. There's such a thing as leading by example.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

There's such a thing as leading by example.

Indeed, and I don't think Jeff Kent is a very good example.

Gonzo? Yes. Nomar? Yes. Lowe? Yes.

I wouldn't want a team full of guys with attitudes like Kent.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

I wouldn't call it whining, it's pointing out a fact. He was getting the job done all year and went into a bad way at the wrong time. Nobody's blaming just him, just as I can't blame Little for sending him out there to do his job. It happens.

Yes, he's had a bad month. However, for the entire year he has been a very, very solid bullpen contributor. I judge based on body of work, not frothing at the mouth over simple ups and downs.

So no, if you're looking to pass blame for the team's season of mediocrity, he's very far down on the list.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

I don't see you taking issue with people who want to blame everything on Juan Pierre, who did exactly what he was brought here to do.

And again, I am very consistent on this.

Broxton has been money pretty much all season. Pierre has not. If you can't figure this consistent line of thought out by now while I keep bashing you over the head with "SMALL SAMPLE SIZES DON'T MATTER", then I can't help you.

Pierre did exactly what he was brought here to do? Was he brought here to suck?

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

I don't care if he is an ******* and I don't care what he says to the papers. I always thought he was an ******* to be honest, but I like having him on my team. The young guys don't have to like him but they can learn by watching him every day. There's such a thing as leading by example.

Here I completely agree with you.

I hope Kent is back for one last year. If he struggles, we have depth.

Originally Posted by irisher

Indeed, and I don't think Jeff Kent is a very good example.

Gonzo? Yes. Nomar? Yes. Lowe? Yes.

I wouldn't want a team full of guys with attitudes like Kent.

I like all those guys, but I don't know how much Gonzo and Nomar have left. Had we gotten into some big games this year I'd liked to have had them up in the clutch, but going forward I don't know. Kent can still produce. I'm not saying I want all these guys to take on his attitude and be like him, but they can certainly learn from his work ethic and his approach to the game. If he has to tell it like it is and they don't like it, so be it.

Originally Posted by jbruin152

Yes, he's had a bad month. However, for the entire year he has been a very, very solid bullpen contributor. I judge based on body of work, not frothing at the mouth over simple ups and downs.

So no, if you're looking to pass blame for the team's season of mediocrity, he's very far down on the list.

Overall, yes. But relievers are like place kickers, the bigger the game the more it magnifies what they do and the more pressure there is. Look at Hoffman, the bigger the game the worse he is. Look how Gagne is doing. It goes with the job. Again, I'm not pinning the season on him and I agree he's been one of our best relievers, right there with Saito. But it is what it is, he blew some games we really needed.

Broxton has been money pretty much all season. Pierre has not. If you can't figure this consistent line of thought out by now while I keep bashing you over the heads with "SMALL SAMPLE SIZES DON'T MATTER", then I can't help you.

September, the playoffs and World Series are "small sample sizes", and they do matter. In the end they matter most.

Pierre did exactly what he was brought here to do? Was he brought here to suck?

The object of the game is to score runs, that's how you win, and fast guys score runs. He leads the team in runs scored, will end up around 100. He's second in the NL in stolen bases, over 60. That's what he does, I don't know what you guys thought he was going to do. Hit 40 HRs? I wish he had a better arm, but on the flip side there are guys who never get on to have to throw out because he covers a lot of ground in CF. I can't imagine they signed him thinking he was going to do much besides what he's done. Is he a 5-tool player or an All-Star? No. Has he been productive for us after a bad start? Yes.

I hope Kent is back for one last year. If he struggles, we have depth.

Originally Posted by jbruin152

I hope Kent is back for one last year.

Lest anyone misunderstand, let me say that I agree with this. I want Kent back as well, as I think he's a better option than Abreu, at this point anyway.

I think losing breeds frustration, and that's why it's bubbling to the surface now. Plus old vets versus young guns is one of the more enduring conflicts in sports.

I just don't think Kent handled this in a solid fashion. He's got a right to be pissed, but talking to Plaschke--after the season's been lost--is not the way to resolve it.

Kemp and Loney do carry a bit of an attitude, which, considering the fact they haven't won ****, needs to be adjusted. I doubt Kent or Grady is the one to do it though.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

Overall, yes. But relievers are like place kickers, the bigger the game the more it magnifies what they do and the more pressure there is. Look at Hoffman, the bigger the game the worse he is. Look how Gagne is doing. It goes with the job. Again, I'm not pinning the season on him and I agree he's been one of our best relievers, right there with Saito. But it is what it is, he blew some games we really needed.

Yes, he's had a bad month. However, his overall season body of work, as mentioned, puts him very low on the blame list. He's saved our asses in far more games than he's blown.

Mariano Rivera and Eric Gagne have blown some huge games. However, they are still two of the best relievers of their era.

Trevor Hoffman is unclutch? This is one of the all-time best of your completely uninformed posts. Trevor Hoffman has a 0.00 ERA this September, and a career ERA of 1.84 in September--BY FAR his best month of the season.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

September, the playoffs and World Series are "small sample sizes", and they do matter. In the end they matter most.

This must be why we're shining Scott Brosius's plaque in the Hall of Fame.

Obviously they are important, but when judging an individual overall you judge on complete body of work. When judging a team, you judge on how they finished.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

The object of the game is to score runs, that's how you win, and fast guys score runs.

Another meaningless cliche that does nothing to help judge a specific player's specific season.

Fast guys cannot score runs when they are not on-base. Pierre is terrible at getting on base.

Tons upon tons of studies have been done on this, and OBP/SLG are continuously shown to have the strongest correlation to runs scored.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

He leads the team in runs scored, will end up around 100.

If you are going to use counting stats to make your point, at least have some grasp of context.

He bats near the top of the lineup and plays every day. Compare his ABs/PAs to anyone else on the team and you'll be able to grasp why his run total is higher than others' run totals.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

He's second in the NL in stolen bases, over 60. That's what he does, I don't know what you guys thought he was going to do. Hit 40 HRs?

And he's been thrown out 14 times--which is a consistent theme in his career. I don't care nearly as much about his SB total as I do about his SB success percentage. He's stealing at an 81% clip, so that's better than nothing (~75% being break-even), but to say 60 as if it's some ridiculous offensive milestone is to show considerable lack of context.

And no, we weren't expecting power. A guy like Pierre, with obvious power deficiency, needs to have a high BA/OBP to make up for this deficiency. Pierre does not. Connect the dots.

And you guys wonder why we can't score runs.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

I wish he had a better arm, but on the flip side there are guys who never get on to have to throw out because he covers a lot of ground in CF.

He's got decent range, but he's no Andruw Jones in center field.

Any SB over the break-even point he's getting are mitigated a decent amount by the extra bases other teams are allowed to take on hits to center.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

I can't imagine they signed him thinking he was going to do much besides what he's done.

Then that's on Colletti for bad judgment.

Originally Posted by Italian Seafood

Is he a 5-tool player or an All-Star? No. Has he been productive for us after a bad start? Yes.

Talk about selective judgment. He's been good since the All-Star break. That's like 70 games. All 162 games count in the standings, unfortunately. His season, as a whole, has been dismal.

You cite these formulas like they are gospel because you read some book. A book written by a guy who has still never gotten his team out of the first round of the playoffs and whose assistant was the worst GM we've had in recent memory, which is saying something.

If Pierre doesn't get on base and gets thrown out too much, he wouldn't be scoring 100 runs. He plays every day because he's durable and he bats high in the lineup because he's fast. He can reach on a fielder's choice, steal a base and get home on a single. Doesn't help his SLG or his RPI but it gets us a run. Score more runs than the other team and you win. Again, I'm not putting the guy in Cooperstown but he does his job. He has the ability to put you ahead and change games by himself, as he did for Florida in the post season in 2003. I would also put him pretty far down the list of people to blame for our season going south.