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  1. #111
    Good Times! redxalonso's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by ASUcruz View Post
    However Rooney is a far more talented player than Fowler. He's more versatile, can play more positions on the pitch and brings a lot more to the table as far as setting up goals. I disagree that Fowler's movement off the ball was better than Rooney. Rooney is probably the second most intelligent player on the pitch other than Paul Scholes. Robbie Fowler was a good player but at the same age did he accomplish what Rooney did at the international level? People seem to be just throwing away his performance in Portugal.

    People are bringing up Tevez's performances with the national team. The talent argument goes both ways. What if Rooney played with the likes of Messi, Crespo, Mascherano, Cambiasso, Saviola, Rodriguez, Gonzalez, et al. And all this being said Tevez's best performance is still the Olympics. Again a U-23 tournament.



    And 2 years ago Rooney had a 19 goal season playing with a makeshift centermidfield of John O'Shea and Ryan Giggs. People assume that just because Rooney is at United he's always been surrounded by talent. That hasn't been exactly true.



    Well if I'm Sir Alex Ferguson give me Wayne Rooney because I know how he can play multiple positions, peform in a title race, a champions league run, and an FA cup run. I don't think that half a season of a great performance with West Ham, winning a glorified U-23 tourney, and accolades in Brazil and Argentina exactly equate with what Rooney has accomplished.
    You have avoided the fact that Rooney has proven to crack under bad times, and Tevez doesn't. Being level headed is what separates Tevez and Rooney for me.

    Rooney never scored 19 LEAGUE goals a season. You make it sound like playing with Giggs is a disadvantage for Rooney. If you think ManUtd didn't have talent around Rooney, then Michael Owen had even less.

    If you want to count overall goals, Fowler scored 18, 31, 36, and 31 from the age of 18-22.

    Rooney has no competition in the England squad. I'm not sure exactly how many goals Peter Crouch has for England but I know it's not that far off Rooney's goal tally, but it doesn't mean Crouch is as good as Rooney does it?

    93-94 was Fowler's first season.

    1996 England had Alan Shearer, Les Ferdinand, and Teddy Sheringham. Terry Venebles is old school and doesn't give out England caps left and right like Ericksson.

    1998 was when Fowler hurt his knee. Young Michael Owen came on the scene and England had Shearer, Owen, Les Ferdinand, and Sheringham for the World Cup.

    Fowler was never the same after his injury and because of his lifestyle off the pitch.

    Rooney can play different positions, so can Tevez.

    btw, in Rooney you bought yourself a player who's broken his foot three times. good job.

  2. #112
    Let the kids play ASUcruz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso View Post
    You have avoided the fact that Rooney has proven to crack under bad times, and Tevez doesn't. Being level headed is what separates Tevez and Rooney for me.
    He's cracked once. Very obviously against Portugal in the last World Cup. For all the talk about Rooney's discipline record he's only been sent off once for United and he's never gotten a straight red. And the second yellow in this case was for clapping sarcastically at the ref. Rooney has played in many high level situations for United and there are many times where he hasn't "cracked".

    You could never really call Roy Keane level headed. Because Patrick Viera was more calm did that make him a better player than Roy Keane? Nope not at all.

    =redxalonsoRooney never scored 19 LEAGUE goals a season. You make it sound like playing with Giggs is a disadvantage for Rooney. If you think ManUtd didn't have talent around Rooney, then Michael Owen had even less.
    I didn't say he scored 19 goals in a league season. I said 19 goals in a season backed behind a CENTRAL midfield duo of Ryan Giggs and John O'Shea. Your so quick to argue, please read my points. Playing with Ryan Giggs in a makeshift center midfield role IS a disadvantage. I'm not sure why Robbie Fowler and Michael Owen got into this argument, I'll bet that by the end of his career, Wayne Rooney's career will have eclipsed both those. It already has in terms of team accomplishments ie EPL titles. That's no slight on Owen and Fowler, but it shows that Rooney is on his way to having quite a career.


    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso
    Rooney has no competition in the England squad. I'm not sure exactly how many goals Peter Crouch has for England but I know it's not that far off Rooney's goal tally, but it doesn't mean Crouch is as good as Rooney does it?
    You brought up goals in the first place regarding an argument between Rooney vs. Fowler/Owen et al. But now your telling me it doesn't matter in terms of overall talent level. Yes, I know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso
    Fowler was never the same after his injury and because of his lifestyle off the pitch.
    And yet we're knocking Rooney because he has a short fuse, which by the way is quite overblown(I've brought up his discipline record for United many times). Fowler is just a good example of why Rooney's "problems" pale in comparison to some other players.

    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso
    Rooney can play different positions, so can Tevez.
    I've never seen Tevez employed on either wing like Rooney did in his early seasons with Man U. I don't think anyone can dispute that Rooney is more versatile than Tevez and that Rooney plays all over the pitch far more than Tevez does.
    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso
    btw, in Rooney you bought yourself a player who's broken his foot three times. good job.
    I'm not sure if this is sarcasm, but United is supposed to be at fault for one of their players suffering freak injuries? Sir Alex was supposed to see in the future and predict that Rooney would suffer unlucky injuries? Please explain this logic to me. I'm guessing that it is sarcasm though.

  3. #113
    Good Times! redxalonso's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by ASUcruz View Post
    He's cracked once. Very obviously against Portugal in the last World Cup. For all the talk about Rooney's discipline record he's only been sent off once for United and he's never gotten a straight red. And the second yellow in this case was for clapping sarcastically at the ref. Rooney has played in many high level situations for United and there are many times where he hasn't "cracked".

    You could never really call Roy Keane level headed. Because Patrick Viera was more calm did that make him a better player than Roy Keane? Nope not at all.



    I didn't say he scored 19 goals in a league season. I said 19 goals in a season backed behind a CENTRAL midfield duo of Ryan Giggs and John O'Shea. Your so quick to argue, please read my points. Playing with Ryan Giggs in a makeshift center midfield role IS a disadvantage. I'm not sure why Robbie Fowler and Michael Owen got into this argument, I'll bet that by the end of his career, Wayne Rooney's career will have eclipsed both those. It already has in terms of team accomplishments ie EPL titles. That's no slight on Owen and Fowler, but it shows that Rooney is on his way to having quite a career.




    You brought up goals in the first place regarding an argument between Rooney vs. Fowler/Owen et al. But now your telling me it doesn't matter in terms of overall talent level. Yes, I know that.



    And yet we're knocking Rooney because he has a short fuse, which by the way is quite overblown(I've brought up his discipline record for United many times). Fowler is just a good example of why Rooney's "problems" pale in comparison to some other players.



    I've never seen Tevez employed on either wing like Rooney did in his early seasons with Man U. I don't think anyone can dispute that Rooney is more versatile than Tevez and that Rooney plays all over the pitch far more than Tevez does.


    I'm not sure if this is sarcasm, but United is supposed to be at fault for one of their players suffering freak injuries? Sir Alex was supposed to see in the future and predict that Rooney would suffer unlucky injuries? Please explain this logic to me. I'm guessing that it is sarcasm though.
    Picking Keane over Viera is your personal preference, doesn't mean one is clearly better than the other. I wouldn't mind taking Viera over Roy Keane.

    2 years ago, aside from Giggs, Rooney had RVN has his striking partner. RVN scored 21 league goals with Giggs playing central midfield. Rooney is lucky he got to play with RVN. Keep coming with the excuses.

    The EPL has no parity. A team that can compete financially in the transfer market with a competent manager has the best chance of winning the EPL or the Champions League. Wayne Rooney plays on a team with a title winning manager with over 20 years experience and can outspend anyone else but Cheslea. When ManUtd plays, C, Ronaldo is the one that stands out, not Rooney. .

    Fowler had his most productive season playing under the worst manager in Liverpool history, and arguably the worst manager in the last 15 years in Graham Sounness. Fair point on his off the field antics...he brought it up on himself.

    Both Owen and Fowler were never going to win the league under the Houllier, especially after Houllier's open heart surgery. Neither would Rooney had he stayed with Everton.

    You haven't seen Tevez play all over the pitch because you didn't watch enough of West Ham's matches from last season like I did. It doesn't mean it never happened. He wasn't deployed on the wing but he was everywhere and was able to ignite attacks on the wings.

    Since you wanted to see how Tevez does during a title run before making a choice, I assumed you'd take Rooney's injury record into consideration.

  4. #114
    Let the kids play ASUcruz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso View Post
    Picking Keane over Viera is your personal preference, doesn't mean one is clearly better than the other. I wouldn't mind taking Viera over Roy Keane.
    Well that's odd. Patrick Viera could never hold Roy Keane's jock. I guess that's a whole different argument but there's no way Patrick Viera was better than Roy Keane.

    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso
    2 years ago, aside from Giggs, Rooney had RVN has his striking partner. RVN scored 21 league goals with Giggs playing central midfield. Rooney is lucky he got to play with RVN. Keep coming with the excuses.
    I understand that you don't follow United as closely as I do so I'll understand your oversight in the matter. But 2 years ago was the year that Ruud was benched starting around X-mas by Sir Alex and he was continually left out of the squad down the stretch. Also keep in mind that when Ruud was scoring most of the goals, Paul Scholes was still healthy.
    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso
    When ManUtd plays, C, Ronaldo is the one that stands out, not Rooney.
    Hmmm, Ronaldo has a tremendous season last year but there have been many, many games where Rooney has outshown Ronaldo. You make it seem like Rooney is the beneficiary of perfect service and scores tap ins everygame. Rooney has proven his worth in many many games. It would probably be silly to list every single game where Rooney has been the match winner but its also fairly silly to infer that he's always been outshown by Ronaldo.

    There have been times at United where Man U was too reliant on Rooney, especially 2 years ago. It gets to the point where he plays far too many minutes(considering our depth) and wears him out.

    The EPL has no parity. A team that can compete financially in the transfer market with a competent manager has the best chance of winning the EPL or the Champions League. Wayne Rooney plays on a team with a title winning manager with over 20 years experience and can outspend anyone else but Cheslea. When ManUtd plays, C, Ronaldo is the one that stands out, not Rooney. .

    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso
    Both Owen and Fowler were never going to win the league under the Houllier, especially after Houllier's open heart surgery. Neither would Rooney had he stayed with Everton.
    Everton and Liverpool aren't exactly quite the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso
    You haven't seen Tevez play all over the pitch because you didn't watch enough of West Ham's matches from last season like I did. It doesn't mean it never happened. He wasn't deployed on the wing but he was everywhere and was able to ignite attacks on the wings.
    I saw plenty of Tevez play last year and I didn't see quite near the versatility in his game that I saw in Rooney. Rooney ignites attacks from all over the pitch as well. Just take a look at his assists numbers. He creates a fair amount of goals.

    The EPL has no parity. A team that can compete financially in the transfer market with a competent manager has the best chance of winning the EPL or the Champions League. Wayne Rooney plays on a team with a title winning manager with over 20 years experience and can outspend anyone else but Cheslea. When ManUtd plays, C, Ronaldo is the one that stands out, not Rooney. .

    Fowler had his most productive season playing under the worst manager in Liverpool history, and arguably the worst manager in the last 15 years in Graham Sounness. Fair point on his off the field antics...he brought it up on himself.

    Both Owen and Fowler were never going to win the league under the Houllier, especially after Houllier's open heart surgery. Neither would Rooney had he stayed with Everton.

    You haven't seen Tevez play all over the pitch because you didn't watch enough of West Ham's matches from last season like I did. It doesn't mean it never happened. He wasn't deployed on the wing but he was everywhere and was able to ignite attacks on the wings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redxalonso
    Since you wanted to see how Tevez does during a title run before making a choice, I assumed you'd take Rooney's injury record into consideration.
    Freak injuries. They are very different from sustaining nagging injuries which can be caused by poor physical condition. Anyways, Rooney has proven a lot more in the EPL, Tevez for all his accomplishments has had 1 good half season. And even in that, it took him a handful of games to get going. I don't want to slight Tevez, he'll be a star in any league he plays in. But as of right now I'd take Rooney.

    Overall I think both guys are quite similar in style and play. I think Tevez is the better finisher in close but Rooney is stronger, a bit more versatile, and is the better striker of the ball from long range. I think both guys are equal in terms of setting up scoring opportunities and in terms of technical skill as well as speed. I can't wait both guys play together.

    Since you wanted to see how Tevez does during a title run before making a choice, I assumed you'd take Rooney's injury record into consideration.
    Fowler had his most productive season playing under the worst manager in Liverpool history, and arguably the worst manager in the last 15 years in Graham Sounness. Fair point on his off the field antics...he brought it up on himself.

    Both Owen and Fowler were never going to win the league under the Houllier, especially after Houllier's open heart surgery. Neither would Rooney had he stayed with Everton.

    You haven't seen Tevez play all over the pitch because you didn't watch enough of West Ham's matches from last season like I did. It doesn't mean it never happened. He wasn't deployed on the wing but he was everywhere and was able to ignite attacks on the wings.

    Since you wanted to see how Tevez does during a title run before making a choice, I assumed you'd take Rooney's injury record into consideration.

  5. #115
    Good Times! redxalonso's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by ASUcruz View Post
    Hmmm, Ronaldo has a tremendous season last year but there have been many, many games where Rooney has outshown Ronaldo. You make it seem like Rooney is the beneficiary of perfect service and scores tap ins everygame. Rooney has proven his worth in many many games. It would probably be silly to list every single game where Rooney has been the match winner but its also fairly silly to infer that he's always been outshown by Ronaldo.
    I'm not talking about tap ins. Ronaldo's combination of speed and skill on the ball is more dangerous than Rooney. He was the most influential attacker on ManUtd's line up. He's the one that open things up for other players. Not only last season, but even when he's at half speed during games in China, and the first game vs. Reading this past weekend, it was easy for me to see who's the superior player. Last years Players' player of the year and young player of the year award was well deserved. The second most dangerous attacker in football behind Kaka.

    I think Kaka outshines Ronaldinho when Brazil plays. This is a similar comparison except Rooney is no Ronaldinho.

    There have been times at United where Man U was too reliant on Rooney, especially 2 years ago. It gets to the point where he plays far too many minutes(considering our depth) and wears him out.
    At the same age, Fowler and Owen played just as many,if not more minutes than Rooney.

    Everton and Liverpool aren't exactly quite the same thing
    .

    Historically, No. But under Houllier, the only difference between Liverpool and Everton were in the standings because neither team stood a chance of winning the EPL.

    I saw plenty of Tevez play last year and I didn't see quite near the versatility in his game that I saw in Rooney. Rooney ignites attacks from all over the pitch as well. Just take a look at his assists numbers. He creates a fair amount of goals.
    Tevez's intangible assets is why I prefer him over Rooney. Rooney wouldn't have quite as many assist with West Ham. Tevez's assist will climb when he plays with his new teammates with ManUtd.

  6. #116
    Good Times! redxalonso's Avatar




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    Dani Alves was left out of Seville's squad for Europe qualifying.

    The word is Robben is about to sign with Real Madrid.

    Alves to Chelsea could happen soon.

  7. #117
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    Madrid pisses me off, I hope their new dutch players bomb under the pressure, especially Sniejder & Drenthe. Facists!!!

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    Good Times! redxalonso's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Irreverent View Post
    Madrid pisses me off, I hope their new dutch players bomb under the pressure, especially Sniejder & Drenthe. Facists!!!
    Drenthe has a TON of potential. Even though he was being a wreckless a$$hole when playing against Liverpool during preseason, I'd love to have him as our fullback.

  9. #119
    Good Times! redxalonso's Avatar




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    Half time. Tottenham 1-3 Everton.

    Pathetic defending by Spurs. Kaboul got hurt and Rocha replaced him. Overall, Spurs defenders are too inexperienced. The attacking players are not in sync.

    This is blasphemy but I would swap Xabi Alonso for Mikel Arteta.

  10. #120
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    Mikel Arteta is SOOOOO underrated. He basically took that team on his back when Cahill got injured, and it looks like he's doing it again.

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