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Thread: 2010-2011 Soccer Thread

  1. #241
    1st Scoring Line Pagliacci's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by ASUcruz View Post
    Still an imposing Brazil team for me. Ramires and Lucas fit the Brazillian template of having two holding players in the middle of the park and both players are in good form. Ramires should have been playing more for Chelsea, I was impressed by his workrate and energy when he played. There's enough creativity up front with Robinho and Neymar up front. Ganso has the "next big thing" label as well would like to see him play especially since he has club chemistry with Neymar.
    I thought Ramires was a wing? Goes to show how little I've watched of the EPL these past 2 years. Obviously they are still a strong team, but who is going to setup the forwards other than Elano?

  2. #242
    1st Scoring Line Crazy_Ivan's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagliacci View Post
    I thought Ramires was a wing? Goes to show how little I've watched of the EPL these past 2 years. Obviously they are still a strong team, but who is going to setup the forwards other than Elano?
    I am dubious about that midfield and still can not get my head around the fact that Brazil have a better defense than midfield. Ganso has the prospects of being a great player but after that it looks like a midfield made up of holding midfielders.

    Lucas, Sandro and Ramires all had solid seasons in the EPL but this Brazilian team has a few unknown factors up front and in midfield for me.

    The creativity is a bit awol there, the results seem to indicate that too. The last 5 games they have only scored 3 goals and only conceded 2 goals, hardly samba football.

    I think if Argentina had managed to get their act together they would be my automatic choice for the trophy.
    Pagliacci likes this.

  3. #243
    Let the kids play ASUcruz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagliacci View Post
    I thought Ramires was a wing? Goes to show how little I've watched of the EPL these past 2 years. Obviously they are still a strong team, but who is going to setup the forwards other than Elano?
    Ramires typical position is in the midfield 3 of a 4-3-3. When Ancelotti played a 4-4-2 he did play on the right hand side of the diamond but was very narrow. He is most definitely a holding player.

    Brazil don't really play with a classic 10 anymore. I'm guessing Neymar and Robinho will play more withdrawn with Pato playing off the last might. Plus like always Brazil have great attacking fullbacks to provide width to provide balls for their attacking players. If they do want to go with a classic 10 Ganso can play that role.

  4. #244
    Let the kids play ASUcruz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan View Post
    I am dubious about that midfield and still can not get my head around the fact that Brazil have a better defense than midfield. Ganso has the prospects of being a great player but after that it looks like a midfield made up of holding midfielders.
    Brazil don't really play with a classic 10 anymore in the mold of Zico anymore. If they do play Ganso and only two holding players it would be a deviation of what they have done in the recent past. Last time they won the World Cup they played a midfield duo of Kleberson and Gilberto Silva. With three attacking players in Ronaldihno, Ronaldo, and Rivaldo. Obviously they could probably get away with that because the three Rs were all world class players/attacking talents but that seems to be the formula Brazil have decided to go with.

    Last World Cup was something similar, with Kaka, Robinho, and Luis Fabiano being the only true attacking players and no "creative" midfielder so to speak. Kaka played the deepest of the 3 with Alves used as basically midfielder/winger with Maicon and Bastos overlapping. I think Alves was wasted but that's for another argument. Clearly though Brazil's MO has been to use at least 2 holding players in the middle of the park sometimes three. With overlapping players providing service and two withdrawn forwards providing service to a lone forward.

    If Brazil play with their typical two withdrawn forwards and striker (Robinho, Neymar, and Pato respectivley) and Ganso behind them that would be a return to a more cavalier team if you look at their recent tournament starting 11s.

    They also have Lucas of San Paolo and Jadson who are very much attacking MFs rather than holding players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan
    Lucas, Sandro and Ramires all had solid seasons in the EPL but this Brazilian team has a few unknown factors up front and in midfield for me.
    Well Pato and Robinho are proven at the European level. While Robinho is pretty inconsistent he has show the ability to play at the highest level. Neymar is an unknown but the talent is clear this could be his breakout tournament.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan
    I think if Argentina had managed to get their act together they would be my automatic choice for the trophy
    Argentina should be the favorite, they are hosting the tourney and have the best player in the world. Unfortunately internal factors and off the field stuff always seem to hamper this team which has a ton of talent. They have potentially an awesome attacking force but their defense does leave a lot to be desired.

  5. #245
    1st Scoring Line Crazy_Ivan's Avatar




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    Argentina have the defense, what they have lacked for some-time is the coach to make the whole team work.

    Zabaleta Burdisso Garay Zanetti

    That is defense good enough to win a tournament, not as good or as experienced as Brazil but still good enough.

    In the midfield and up front they put Brazil to shame with the wealth and depth of talent, but as you say internal factors as well as some questionable choices in the coaching department have left them an un-known factor.


    With regards to Brazil of course they could put it together and have a great tournament but some key players like Robihno need to really step up and lead the team. It honestly is (imo) the best chance for one of the smaller nations to step up and take a win.



    Oh it is good to have you back ASU Cruz.
    Last edited by Crazy_Ivan; June 9th, 2011 at 11:12 AM.

  6. #246
    1st Scoring Line Pagliacci's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan View Post

    With regards to Brazil of course they could put it together and have a great tournament but some key players like Robihno need to really step up and lead the team. It honestly is (imo) the best chance for one of the smaller nations to step up and take a win.
    I'm picking Chile if Argentina continues to be an enigma.

  7. #247
    Let the kids play ASUcruz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan View Post
    Argentina have the defense, what they have lacked for some-time is the coach to make the whole team work.

    Zabaleta Burdisso Garay Zanetti

    That is defense good enough to win a tournament, not as good or as experienced as Brazil but still good enough.
    I agree it is good enough to win a tournament but only because Argentina have so much firepower. I think Zanetti is past it and is really only around for his leadership skills. If he is first choice I think he will continue to get exposed. Garay doesn't play for Madrid so he is unproven at best although talented. I think Burdisso is a good player but not in the upper echelon of center halves. Overall they lack depth and out wide could be exposed by pace. Luckily for them Argentina will likely dominate possession, at least 60% in their favor in most games. Also they will likely have two strong holding players in front of them in Mascherano and Cambiasso a well as Banega.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan
    In the midfield and up front they put Brazil to shame with the wealth and depth of talent, but as you say internal factors as well as some questionable choices in the coaching department have left them an un-known factor.
    Agreed, as I said above Argentina have loads of firepower but the trick is finding the right combination of players who will play well. While they have more proven high end talent (specifically more proven in Europe) than Brazil's attacking players, Brazil's players always seem to have better chemistry and they play roles that are familar to them.

    Argentina have many question marks. Messi has just had his best season playing as a false 9 center forward. But in the modern era Argentina favors playing with classic center forward. So do they play Messi in the false 9 role or let Higuain/Milito play as the classic CF. Tevez was named into the squad and after a lot of controversy will surely be named to the squad. But he is a hard player to accommodate. He needs to play as a striker but he roams so much it is almost detrimental to the team.

    Then you have Aguero coming off a great season, Do they play Messi as their "10" or does Pastore fit the role? They have a ton of talent but how does it all fit together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan
    With regards to Brazil of course they could put it together and have a great tournament but some key players like Robihno need to really step up and lead the team. It honestly is (imo) the best chance for one of the smaller nations to step up and take a win.
    Robinho always plays much better in a Brazil shirt than for his club. That factor cannot be overlooked. For whatever reason I have always felt that there are a number of Brazillians who play much better for their national team than club team. Maybe it is style or familiarity with their countrymen. But Robinho definitley fits this bill (a counter-example would be Kaka far better for club than country). So I think Robinho will have a good tournament he always plays well for Brazil. For me the guy that needs to step up is Neymar he can make this breakout tournament and show that the 40 million+ price tag on him is legitimate. To a lesser extent Ganso has to be effective but like Vegas mentions he is coming off an injury.

    While Brazil have less "European" proven talent up front the skill is there. Neymar, Ganso, Jadson, Lucas(San Paulo) all obviously have skill maybe it is just not known. I do think that maybe less is more for Brazil in that they have attacking players who compliment each other and know their roles. While Argentina have a ton of talent who don't seem to be able to play together and their roles overlap.

    If it were me I would build my team around Messi (duh). They can't replicate Barca because that style takes years of chemistry and they don't have anyone to play the Alves, Busqutes, and Inesta/Xavi role but they can come close. I would play a front three of Aguero-Messi-Di Maria.

    It seems crazy to have Tevez on the bench but I think this front three is more flexible and interchangeable while Tevez would only want to play through the middle. I would also ditch the idea of playing with the classic CF ala Batistuta/Crepso especially since Higuain is coming off of injury and Milito didn't have a good season. Then go with Pastore as my #10 playmaker with Banega and Mascherano/Cambiasso holding behind him. The only problem is this 4-3-3 would get rather narrow since Argentina doesn't have great overlapping fullbacks.

  8. #248
    1st Scoring Line Crazy_Ivan's Avatar




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    On a different note, it is a bit disapointing that a team like Barcelona can win the league and champions league and still make a hefty loss. This is something that is being repeated in quite a few Premier League teams, even Arsenal who it could be said are very fiscally prudent over the last few seasons have made a loss this year.

  9. #249
    1st Scoring Line Crazy_Ivan's Avatar




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    Interested to hear some thoughts on the current Arsenal situation. There are reports of Clichy, Nasri and Bendtner wanting out, losing Clichy might not be that bad although Gael Clichy is currently the only player on the Arsenal squad to have a winners medal with Arsenal. Liverpool are reported to have made an offer for him. I have some questions for my fellow LGK brethren.

    1) Is Arsene Wenger entering the last chance saloon? IMO if he does not win anything next season he is gone, whether he leaves himself or is fired. I am not even sure the Carling Cup would suffice, another aspect to take in is what if he gets drawn in the pre-lims of the CL and draws say Bayern and they get knocked out?

    2) Is the fact that Arsenal have consistently lost some of their most effective players, and that they willingly wanted to leave(Adebayor, Flamini, Toure, Henry, Cole) a reflection on Wenger, or his footballing policy?

    3) Has Arsene become another Louis van Gaal who places too much trust in younger players to the detriment of the team?

    Losing Bendnter will hurt the most after all he is going to be the(Self proclaimed) best striker in the world.

  10. #250
    1st Scoring Line Pagliacci's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan View Post
    Interested to hear some thoughts on the current Arsenal situation. There are reports of Clichy, Nasri and Bendtner wanting out, losing Clichy might not be that bad although Gael Clichy is currently the only player on the Arsenal squad to have a winners medal with Arsenal. Liverpool are reported to have made an offer for him. I have some questions for my fellow LGK brethren.

    1) Is Arsene Wenger entering the last chance saloon? IMO if he does not win anything next season he is gone, whether he leaves himself or is fired. I am not even sure the Carling Cup would suffice, another aspect to take in is what if he gets drawn in the pre-lims of the CL and draws say Bayern and they get knocked out?

    2) Is the fact that Arsenal have consistently lost some of their most effective players, and that they willingly wanted to leave(Adebayor, Flamini, Toure, Henry, Cole) a reflection on Wenger, or his footballing policy?

    3) Has Arsene become another Louis van Gaal who places too much trust in younger players to the detriment of the team?

    Losing Bendnter will hurt the most after all he is going to be the(Self proclaimed) best striker in the world.
    1) I think he gets one more crack from the board to assemble a winning project. One year though and otherwise he's tossed.

    2) I think they leave because of the $$$$. Chelsea and other clubs can pay higher salaries from what I can gather. I think Henry left to play with Ronaldinho and win a UCL, which he did.

    3) Louis Van Gaal is way overrated in my book. His squads are usually filled with talent, but he loses control of the squad after 2-3 seasons. Arsene I think is a good coach, but he's put his trust in the wrong players. Van Persie and Fabregas are great, but unreliable as far as health is concerned. In all honesty they need a gritty, tough defensive midfielder and a solid central back. They are a little soft...


    That's all I got for now.

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