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Thread: The Official 2008-2009 Soccer Thread

  1. #911
    Let the kids play ASUcruz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan View Post
    Ronaldo linked the midfield with the forwards through his dribbling, taking on and beating opposition players and his late runs in to the box which made him difficult to mark. United have nobody that can fill that role.
    Not really, many times Ronaldo was the player up front, the ball was delivered to him and he took on defenders in the deep third. The last two years he didn't really link anybody. What late runs are you talking about? Again Ronaldo basically played as a CF, especially last year. I didn't see any of the "linking midfield with forwards" that you speak of and I probably watch as many United games as any. I don't think service will ever be a problem with United. United possess the ball as much as anybody, it's in front that I'm worried about. Probably the best finisher on the team now is Owen, he is the most instinctive anyways. A lot will depend on him, especially against the weaker teams that Ronaldo would punish.

    I disagree, I think Rooney can fill that role. Given more freedom he can be every bit as influential as Ronaldo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan
    Liverpool have Gerrard, Chelsea have Lampard, I can't see Rooney filling that role, yes when he first burst on the scene, and as for playing on the wing Rooney looked sxxt out there last season.
    Apples and Oranges, Lampard links defense and attack with is wide range of passing, dribbling is not apart of Lampard's game. You are severely underestimating Rooney's abilities. As for him looking like **** on the wing, I'm not sure what you were watching. Time and time again he proved most useful out wide, negating the opposition's attacking wide players with his tenacity and his ability to go forward. He was probably too useful out wide, as he was forced to play out there instead of his natural forward position because he was so good there.

    We are going to have to agree to disagree regarding Rooney. His talent is undeniable, sometimes he is too unselfish. If given Ronaldo's free role he will be unleashed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan
    Ronaldo scored goals, yes, but his vision and ability to draw defenders off other players whilst crafting a superb pass or cross is what I can't see happening this year.
    What? Superb pass or cross? Ronaldo is a fantastic talent and while he used his teammates more often as time went on, I never saw consistent "superb" passes and crosses. Again the biggest loss we'll see is the goal scoring, you bring up last year. 18 league goals but he also missed more games than two seasons ago and was not himself at the beginning of the year. Again, I argue that his goal scoring will be most difficult to replace because he was so ruthless in front of goal especially against the weaker teams. Rooney while talented isn't not the clinical finisher than Ronaldo is, I do think however than he can be more of a creator. His vision for the pass and his willingness to pass far surpasses Ronaldo's, sometimes too much.

  2. #912
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    As far as those stats go, soccernet credits Ronaldo with just six assists in the Prem last year and nine overall. Where did you get 20 from?

  3. #913
    1st Scoring Line Crazy_Ivan's Avatar




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    The last two years he didn't really link anybody.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZfB51iXcNA"]YouTube - ~NEW~Cristiano Ronaldo 2008/2009 season COMPLETE HIGHLIGHTS!!! GOALS, ASSISTS, TRICKS, PLAYS...[/ame]
    Are you really saying he never linked anybody?

    What? Superb pass or cross?
    See the vid above.

    Again Ronaldo basically played as a CF
    CF on the team sheet yes, but the guy was all over the pitch, he played where he wanted, the whole flow of the game ran through him. What made him special was that he could take on most defenders, was good with both feet, was great in the air and was a dead ball expert.

    IMO United have not replaced him adequately at all, but like I said it is early days and I never write United off under Alex Ferguson.

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    1st Scoring Line Crazy_Ivan's Avatar




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    I will put it this way, Rooney flighting in crosses for Berbatov and Owen does not fill me with confidence. Nani, well he is a talent but needs to prove it on a weekly basis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan View Post
    Not in the way that you described. Ironically that video seems to prove my point more than yours, especially in the second leg of the Arsenal game. All those balls Ronaldo received were in the final third. And he proceeded to attack the goal. This linking of driving the ball from deep into midfield into attack never really occurs in this "highlight video". If you want to judge a player by highlight videos that's your choice.

    You brought up Lampard as a comparison as a player you links midfield and attack. Not a good comparison because Lampard does it with his range of passing and movement. You brought up Gerrard, that wasn't his role but rather Xabi's. Again my argument is the service from midfield you speak of did not really exist the last two years. Ronaldo was at the finishing end of the majority of United's attacks not at the beginning. There's not many clips of Ronaldo providing that defense splitting pass to the man ahead of him because he was the man on the recieving end. Did it happen? Of course it did, but was this the main reason United were successful? No it was his goal scoring.

    Again, I argue that the goals will be the thing United miss about Ronaldo the most not the "link play" or the "service". I agree that other teams focused so much on Ronaldo that it allowed other players more freedom, but that was in the final third, not in the build up.

    It's also a bit funny that Rooney was "****" at wing, yet this video shows numerous highlights coming from a wide position and scoring goals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan
    CF on the team sheet yes, but the guy was all over the pitch, he played where he wanted, the whole flow of the game ran through him. What made him special was that he could take on most defenders, was good with both feet, was great in the air and was a dead ball expert.
    Again I tend to disagree. Yes, Ronaldo had a free role but he was not "all over the pitch" as you claim. Maybe in the attacking third but he didn't do a lot of taking the ball from midfield and dribbling through entire defenses like a Messi did. Ronaldo's off the ball movement is extremley underrated, probably why he was so effective as a CF. Yes, he did have a free role but for the most part he did a lot of his work in the final third. Ronaldo very rarely was involved in the initial build up of a play. The statistics you cited were wrong, the ones on soccernet and even on the EPL website, show that he was much more of a finisher rather than a creator. Did he make a lot of goals? Yes, of course that's what makes him a great player but his number one instict was to go for goal himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan
    IMO United have not replaced him adequately at all, but like I said it is early days and I never write United off under Alex Ferguson.
    Well you don't really "replace" a great player like Ronaldo. Even adequately, that's what makes him so great. His talents are so unique that there is no one really you can buy say "we have adequately replaced Ronaldo. Ideally, Rooney gets a more creative role, and Valencia gives United a player who can deliver balls into the box from a wide position consistently. Something Ronaldo was not very good at. The Owen signing was obviously a move to try and replace Ronaldo's efficiency in front of goal. Again my point still stands, United will most miss how effective Ronaldo was at punishing the weaker sides in the EPL. His finishing and instincts was uncanny, Owen's recent form notwithstanding he still has the ability to finish in front of goal, especially with the service he gets. I think the likes of Rooney, Valencia, Carrick, Giggs, Berbatov, etc. are all capable of providing Owen with at least a few chances a game. He didn't have that luxury at Newcastle.

  6. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan View Post
    I will put it this way, Rooney flighting in crosses for Berbatov and Owen does not fill me with confidence. Nani, well he is a talent but needs to prove it on a weekly basis.
    I think the idea of one of the pre-requistes for being an outstanding winger is the ability to provide dead point crosses is a bit outdated. Rooney was so dangerous on the wing not for his crossing ablity but because of his ablity to go 1 V 1 against outside backs, beat them and cut in on goal.

    Ryan Giggs for example was never the most consistent crosser in the world. But he was the best winger in the world at his peak.

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