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  1. #111
    Hating ties is dumb. Dr. Naysay's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox View Post
    it's a shame some people (and yes as trdi says, americans) aren't taking that into account and are instead thinking that he's doped.
    What about those of us who just don't give a ****?

  2. #112
    Good Times! redxalonso's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by trdi View Post
    I don't think that doping is a big problem in swimming since technique is so important. So I have to say I don't understand your point. And why are you talking about swimmers? Read again, what I wrote. Phelps will be the best swimmer at OI ever, so I don't understand the second point there."
    I wasn't trying to focus on doping at all.

    In your original point, you made it sound like swimmers, regardless how well they do, should not be compared to other athletes because swimmers get more opportunities to win more medals.

  3. #113
    FlyinKIng
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    womens volleyball doing well.

  4. #114
    fantastic hair. lunchbox's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay View Post
    What about those of us who just don't give a ****?
    je m'en fous, j'en ai rien foutre non plus!

  5. #115
    trdi
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    Quote Originally Posted by redxalonso View Post
    I wasn't trying to focus on doping at all.

    In your original point, you made it sound like swimmers, regardless how well they do, should not be compared to other athletes because swimmers get more opportunities to win more medals.
    Yes, athletes from different disciplines shouldn't be compared to each other. You can only compare them in their own discipline. Different sports, different opportunities to win medals. As for your post, you got some answers from other members.

    Apart from this french guy Bernard (HGH for sure), you can look at best swimmers in different disciplines and see that perfect body is pretty much the same for all disciplines. Compare them... Popov, Thorpe, Phelps,... Now compare 100m runner to 400m runners. And compare 800m runners to 400m runners. And compare 110m hurdles runners to 100m runners. A 110m hurdles runner will never be able to win the 100m sprint today. And vice versa. They need to specialize their body much more.

    When runners get 4 different ways to run, we can talk about comparing them to swimmers. But even then I am against comparing athletes from different disciplines. It usually shows disrespect of some sports, which of course comes from ignorance. All olympic champions are great. There is no greatest.

  6. #116
    Hand of the Kings Deadmarsh28's Avatar




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    So that's what sports have come down to...athletes are achieving world records and the all the spectators immediately think "Oh, there's got to be something wrong!" Thank you, drug takers.

    But seriously, this years swimming really looks fishy. Swimmers from different nations are achieving world records at minute intervals, sometimes improving them by several seconds. And all this because of a new swimsuit? Or have training and technique improved that much?

    Or look at French swimmer Alain Bernard, today's winner in the 100m freestyle race. He basically looks like Hercules, but weighed almost 44 pounds less last year...that's 44 new pounds of muscle...in one year? Even one of his teammates said, half-jokingly, that he apparently has found some good "vitamins".

    Bottom line: Athletes are innocent until proven guilty, but I think that it's allowed to be doubtful about the whole situation...

  7. #117
    Thanks for the memories Unruely35's Avatar




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    I think your point is a little off when comparing swimming vs. track and field.

    Track runners are very nearly just as interdisciplinary as swimmers to a certain degree. Of course, youre not gonna see many short or middle distance runners to a Steeplechase or a Marathon. When it comes to sprinters vs. middle distance (in my experience) it has more to do with endurance and preference rather than a difference in body type.
    Jeremy Roenick: I liked Patrick's quote, (that) he would have stopped me. I wanted to know where he was in Game 3. He was probably getting his jock out of the rafters of the United Center.
    Patrick Roy: I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I've got my two Stanley Cup rings plugging my ears.



  8. #118
    trdi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadmarsh28 View Post
    So that's what sports have come down to...athletes are achieving world records and the all the spectators immediately think "Oh, there's got to be something wrong!" Thank you, drug takers.

    But seriously, this years swimming really looks fishy. Swimmers from different nations are achieving world records at minute intervals, sometimes improving them by several seconds. And all this because of a new swimsuit? Or have training and technique improved that much?
    It IS the swimsuit. You can give that swimsuit to any junior swimmer and he/she will have considerably better results.

    That's why I think they should all get rid of the swimsuits, women included! Or at least have old records still recognized as valid until one of these heroes breaks it without the super swimsuit.

  9. #119
    Hand of the Kings Deadmarsh28's Avatar




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    Women's races without swimsuit? I second that...

    Still, I'm not convinced about it's world record-breaking-effect, but even if it's true, why should one ban it? Every team had the opportunity to switch to Speedo's LZR Racer, those that didn't preferred (or were forced to prefer) other manufacturers. Tough luck then.

  10. #120
    trdi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unruely35 View Post
    I think your point is a little off when comparing swimming vs. track and field.

    Track runners are very nearly just as interdisciplinary as swimmers to a certain degree. Of course, youre not gonna see many short or middle distance runners to a Steeplechase or a Marathon. When it comes to sprinters vs. middle distance (in my experience) it has more to do with endurance and preference rather than a difference in body type.
    I have couple of friends who did well, winning national U18 titles in steeplachase and 1500m, others getting medals at European U23 championships in sprints and there's one other being one of the best at 5000-10000m.

    What I learned is, that even if those two mid/long distance runners look similar in their clothes, they have completely different body constitution. They are best friends since they were 7 and they trained together most of the time. One kills other in their best discipline. The steeplechase guy is much stronger and much more explosive.

    The sprinter guy is a 100kg beast and 200 meters race is already a marathon for him. While he could easily do 10.50 to 10.60 on 100m, his 200m times were much worse. In the 400m distance he claims he would not be able to even cross the finish line, hehe.

    Body constitution IMO is the thing that sets your limits in running competitions you can be the best in. In swimming there is this perfect body constitution which is good for most of the disciplines. In running such body shape doesn't exist.

    Still, I'm not convinced about it's world record-breaking-effect, but even if it's true, why should one ban it?
    My argument is, that swimming has been one of the basic, elemental sports, like running and boxing. When somebody set the world record, he was considered to be fastest swimmer ever. Today it isn't like that. When somebody sets a world record, he or she is considered to swim the fastest time ever. IMO it's a shame that we can't compare these swimmers to some of the world record holders from the past, those without the swimsuits.
    Last edited by trdi; August 14th, 2008 at 09:09 AM.

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