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  1. #131
    Now Available In HD Italian Seafood's Avatar




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    LeBron's performance was amazing in Game 5, but that whole series was played without a top notch big man on either side. But as bland said, it's the East, so that's not surprising. An aging Shaq managed to get his team through the East last year, who else is out here with any kind of presence? I'm hoping Eddy Curry becomes that next guy, that's why I've defended Isiah's much-maligned trade all the way through to now. But as much as I'm rooting for Cleveland, I don't know who is going to deal with Tim Duncan.

  2. #132
    Concussed Villain Mondo Blando's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by jbruin152 View Post
    Bryant 22 shots/game (1st in NBA), 1st in scoring, 5.4 assists/game
    James 20 shots/game (6th in NBA), 4th in scoring, 6.0 assists/game

    They are both swingmen. So... not so much.


    Seriously, enough with your pretentious sidestepping nonsense. None of your dancing around counterexamples proves any of your points.

    If you want to say "no shooting guard who wears 24 on a team wearing purple and gold who shoots 22+ times a game will win a title", be my guest. Otherwise, your originally broadly-scoped theory has been destroyed multiple times.

    Destroyed? You are mistaken, pure and simple.

    I asked a simple question: name the teams that have been of championship caliber featuring a shooting guard as their top player. I cited Jordan's Bulls as the lone exception in the same damn post, and you tried to throw it back in my face as though I'd never even heard of them. It's laughable.

    I'll ask it again, this time for those who have a hard time comprehending the question:

    Other than Jordan's Bulls, can you name one team in the last twenty five years that was legitimately capable of winning the NBA title with a shooting guard as its dominant player?

    It's a simple question, with a simple answer. NONE.

    Have teams with a star 2-guard made it to the finals? Yes - I GAVE YOU THAT UPFRONT.

    The Lakers front office knows that they cannot win without a force up front. That is why they took a stupid gamble on Kwame Brown's potential, and that is why they drafted and refused (thus far) to consider trading Bynum. They themselves know that Bryant CANNOT win without a dominant big man.

    I gave you multiple reasons why it cannot happen: salary cap constraints; defensive structure; personality conflicts, etc.

    Is it theoretically possible that somehow the Lakers could convince multiple hard-nosed vets to come in at the league minimum? Yes.

    Is it theoretically possible that Lamar Odom could mature to the point where he can step up into a Scotty Pippen type role? Yes.

    Could Phil Jackson find a new way to resolve the roster issues and motivate the seemingly heartless scrubs in the purple and gold? Yes.

    Ask yourself, how likely are these scenarios?

    How are they going to overturn this pathetic roster?

    If you are simply taking issue with my flat statement that the Lakers cannot win with Kobe as the focal point simply because you hate blanket statements, fine. I can accept that. Keep watching, and you may start to agree with me. This isn't something that just came off of the top of my head.

  3. #133
    devenir gris gescom's Avatar




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    did they trade Kobe's sorry ass yet?
    GESCOM: it's never too early to start beefing up your obituary!

  4. #134
    Little Big Man 33isgod's Avatar




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    Dwyane Wade was still the best player on the Miami team last year.

  5. #135
    Now Available In HD Italian Seafood's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by 33isgod View Post
    Dwyane Wade was still the best player on the Miami team last year.
    Perhaps, but Shaq's presence inside enabled him to be, just as Shaq in his prime made Kobe look like the second coming of Jordan. How's that working out since Shaq left?

    From a non-Laker fan perspective, the biggest thing the Lakers have going for them is that they are the Lakers. Eventually one of the great big men in the game is going to migrate out there, just as Kareem did and Shaq did, but who knows when that will be?

  6. #136
    I don't rattle, kid. Kubrick's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by bland View Post
    I asked a simple question: name the teams that have been of championship caliber featuring a shooting guard as their top player. I cited Jordan's Bulls as the lone exception in the same damn post, and you tried to throw it back in my face as though I'd never even heard of them. It's laughable.
    2003-2004
    Detroit Pistons

    Richard Hamilton was Detroit's leading scoring during the regular season and the playoffs.

    Regular Season: 17.6 ppg 3.6 rpg 4.0 apg
    Playoffs: 21.5 ppg 4.6 rpg 4.2 apg

    Who did the Pistons beat that year? A Lakers team that featured the most dominant Big Man of his generation.

    I can't wait to see how you spin this one.

    Also, ANY team that makes it to the Finals is by definition championship caliber whether you want to concede that or not. The Finals are far from a formality despite your dismissal of the Leastern Conference.
    Last edited by Kubrick; June 6th, 2007 at 08:26 AM.

  7. #137
    Now Available In HD Italian Seafood's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Die Radio Die View Post
    2003-2004
    Detroit Pistons

    Richard Hamilton was Detroit's leading scoring during the regular season and the playoffs.

    Regular Season: 17.6 ppg 3.6 rpg 4.0 apg
    Playoffs: 21.5 ppg 4.6 rpg 4.2 apg

    Who did the Pistons beat that year? A Lakers team that featured the most dominant Big Man of his generation.

    There's a lot more to basketball than just stats and numbers to explain what is happening on the floor. Detroit had Ben Wallace, one of the most prolific post defenders of this decade, to deal with Shaq. There isn't a number you can put on that except maybe to look at what the opponent does. Especially in basketball, there's help defense, it's a total team game. To just isolate one guy's scoring numbers and say he was the leader is not an accurate summation of what happened.

  8. #138
    I don't rattle, kid. Kubrick's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Italian Seafood View Post
    There's a lot more to basketball than just stats and numbers to explain what is happening on the floor. Detroit had Ben Wallace, one of the most prolific post defenders of this decade, to deal with Shaq. There isn't a number you can put on that except maybe to look at what the opponent does. Especially in basketball, there's help defense, it's a total team game. To just isolate one guy's scoring numbers and say he was the leader is not an accurate summation of what happened.
    So a one-dimensional Center was Detroit's top player?

    Richard Hamilton had a fantastic post-season that year. He WAS Detroit's best player when the ball was in his hands.
    Last edited by Kubrick; June 6th, 2007 at 09:26 AM.

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die Radio Die View Post
    So a one-dimensional Center was Detroit's top player?

    Richard Hamilton had a fantastic post-season that year. He WAS Detroit's best player when the ball was in his hands.
    With the ball in his hands, ok. There's ten guys on the floor and only one has the ball in his hands at any given time. That doesn't mean there's nothing else happening.

    And I never said Wallace was their "top player", I said he gave them a presence in the post defensively vs Shaq, which is the point of the conversation. The beauty of that Detroit team is that they were a team, it wasn't "Michael vs Kobe", etc, the kind of **** that is ruining the NBA. It's a team game, everyone has a job to do and on that team they did it beautifully. It doesn't matter who was their "top player" for the marquee, the point is they played as a team and got it done. Depending on how you look at the game, there could be various answers to who the "top player" was.
    Last edited by Italian Seafood; June 6th, 2007 at 09:52 AM.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by bland
    Destroyed? You are mistaken, pure and simple.

    I asked a simple question: name the teams that have been of championship caliber featuring a shooting guard as their top player. I cited Jordan's Bulls as the lone exception in the same damn post, and you tried to throw it back in my face as though I'd never even heard of them. It's laughable.
    I never said you hadn't heard of them--I said you couldn't dismiss six years of winning in the last twenty with a bare mention because it is the single biggest discrepancy in your "theory".

    As mentioned, LeBron is a swingman (and I see the SG and SF positions as pretty much interchangeable) and Wade was the dominant player on the Heat. Yes, Shaq very much helped but everyone knows Wade was the MVP of that team. Dismissing LeBron as a "distributor" doesn't make it any less true that he is the dominant scorer on that team.

    Secondly, this false notion that you can't have both a very good big man AS WELL AS a top scoring guard is also nonsense. The Wade/Shaq relationship is a prime example. (The Kobe/Shaq situation is a bit different, as Shaq was the dominant player with Kobe as the number two.) I've never said Kobe didn't need help in the post--actually, I've said quite the opposite on many occasions.

    I'm cutting out the bulk of the middle of your post because you are just stating the obvious that everyone on here has universally acknowledged, Kobe-haters and Kobe-lovers alike.

    Quote Originally Posted by bland
    If you are simply taking issue with my flat statement that the Lakers cannot win with Kobe as the focal point simply because you hate blanket statements, fine. I can accept that. Keep watching, and you may start to agree with me. This isn't something that just came off of the top of my head.
    The Lakers can win with Kobe as the focal point if they give him help in the post.

    The two are not mutually exclusive. This is not news.

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