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Thread: The Official MMA Thread

  1. #311
    Let the kids play ASUcruz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolovian View Post
    But seriously, you guys think he has a good chance at becoming Welterweight champ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmytheKing View Post
    No. I don't. He'll be the Tito Ortiz of that division. Close, but not quite. Especially if B.J. Penn decides to move back up in the future.
    Well remember Tito was the Light Heavyweight Champion. It's easy to knock Tito especially if you don't like him, but he did hold the title. So it's not like he's a gatekeeper. I don't think he'll ever see the 205 pound gold ever again, but let's not forget that at one point he did have that belt around his waste.

    As for Karo, I enjoy watching him as a fighter and I think he has the talent to be the 170 LB champ, the only thing is that division is so stacked. Ahead of him you have the champ obviously in Serra, two former champs in GSP and Hughes, and a rising talent in Koscheck. Besides them there's the talented Jon Fitch and of course Diego who will still get pushed. Karo is a very talented fighter but the road to the title is tough for guys like him and even Fitch.

    I'm not even sure when he's fighting again but keep in mind that the next title fight at Welterweight isn't slated until December 29th. Then a few months after that it'll be the title holder vs. the winner of GSP-Koscheck. So the next title fight after that would be what late summer? That's a long way from now and Karo would have to probably fight 2 tough fights. Let's say fighting Koscheck(assuming he loses to GSP) then Hughes.

  2. #312
    Polyphonic Prostitute OvertimeHero's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolovian View Post
    I'll admit, I cracked a smile when I read that so touche.

    But seriously, you guys think he has a good chance at becoming Welterweight champ?
    The Canadian in me says that GSP is going to get that belt back sooner rather than later and then keep it for a fair amount of time.

  3. #313
    Let the kids play ASUcruz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by OvertimeHero View Post
    The Canadian in me says that GSP is going to get that belt back sooner rather than later and then keep it for a fair amount of time.
    Regardless of who has the title, I think the toughest fight GSP has is the Koscheck fight. I think he'll walk through Hughes again or walk through Serra like he should have(there are reports now saying that he didn't train much for the bout). But Koscheck is a tough matchup for anybody in that division with his superior wrestling and improving standup.

    I'll be anxious to see how Koscheck approaches GSP. He can't fight the same way he did against Diego because he'll get killed standing up. He'll have to try and take GSP down, GSP's TD defense is awesome though and his BJJ is good. It really is an interesting matchup.

  4. #314
    Hit it like a baby seal SmytheKing's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by ASUcruz View Post
    Well remember Tito was the Light Heavyweight Champion. It's easy to knock Tito especially if you don't like him, but he did hold the title. So it's not like he's a gatekeeper. I don't think he'll ever see the 205 pound gold ever again, but let's not forget that at one point he did have that belt around his waste.
    I was wondering when someone would bring that up. ; )

    I know he HAD the belt, but I'm just talking now. He's going to be a gatekeeper. Honestly I think Liddell might be in that role sooner rather than later too. I like Tito. I like what he does, but I just don't see him ever reaching the top again either.

    Quote Originally Posted by ASUcruz
    Regardless of who has the title, I think the toughest fight GSP has is the Koscheck fight. I think he'll walk through Hughes again or walk through Serra like he should have(there are reports now saying that he didn't train much for the bout). But Koscheck is a tough matchup for anybody in that division with his superior wrestling and improving standup.

    I'll be anxious to see how Koscheck approaches GSP. He can't fight the same way he did against Diego because he'll get killed standing up. He'll have to try and take GSP down, GSP's TD defense is awesome though and his BJJ is good. It really is an interesting matchup.
    See, I don't know about that. I just think about the fact that Hughes couldn't take him down and BJ had a hell of a time doing it as well. Koscheck is going to have a monumental task in front of him with GSP I think. If he shoots, he has to get FANTASTIC control and position on him because GSP could submit him from the ground as well. He's also real strong down there and could get back up. I don't think he's worried about Koscheck subbing him either so that's one more risk he could take.

    Oh, FYI, UFC 76 goes on sale to genpop on August 4th for anyone that might be interested.

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    Let the kids play ASUcruz's Avatar




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    [QUOTE=SmytheKing;890889]
    See, I don't know about that. I just think about the fact that Hughes couldn't take him down and BJ had a hell of a time doing it as well. Koscheck is going to have a monumental task in front of him with GSP I think. If he shoots, he has to get FANTASTIC control and position on him because GSP could submit him from the ground as well. He's also real strong down there and could get back up. I don't think he's worried about Koscheck subbing him either so that's one more risk he could take.

    QUOTE]

    The thing is, Koscheck's wresting is better than Matt Hughes wrestling. Much much better IMO. Hughes has good takedowns but I think its more because he's just has raw strength more than superb wrestling techniques. Koscheck was dominant in NCAA wrestling which is more than anyone other than Rashad Evans an say as far as MMA fighters go. An amateur wrestler like JBruin can attest to the fact of how hard it is to be that dominant at a high level.

    Anyways, I think Koscheck will be able to take GSP down, but GSP's is also superb and he's much better on his feet. It'll be a GSP win, but I wouldn't be surprised if Koscheck is able to lay and pray his way to a close decision especially in only a 3 round fight.

  6. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASUcruz View Post
    I don't think Penn struggled at all to make 155. In the Jens fight he looked really cut and lean. Remember, for the Hughes fight BJ didn't cut weight, he came into the fight at I believe 167 pounds. Cutting weight isn't easy or anything but I don't think it is difficult for him to make 155. It's not like Sherk who walks around at like 180 when he's not fighting. It's just a bit more diet and then the weight cut for Penn to make 155. I've seen a lot worse when it comes to guys stuggling to make weight(Erik Morales comes to mind) BJ didn't look like that at all.



    I think that would be a good fight, although Stevenson is slated to fight Kurt Pellegrino at UFC 74 which is in August. Since Sherk's hearing is on August 3rd, I don't know if they'd ask Stevenson to pull out of that Pellegrino fight and take on Huerta. Although since it would be for the belt I'm guessing Stevenson would do it. Anyways, I think that Stevenson-Pellegrino fight will go off and it will be a #1 contendor's fight.


    Your mention of weight cutting reminds me of Joe Riggs who seemed to repeatedly cut weight down to 170 when he looks like a 205 and then proceeded to get his ass kicked.

  7. #317
    Polyphonic Prostitute OvertimeHero's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by ASUcruz View Post
    The thing is, Koscheck's wresting is better than Matt Hughes wrestling. Much much better IMO. Hughes has good takedowns but I think its more because he's just has raw strength more than superb wrestling techniques. Koscheck was dominant in NCAA wrestling which is more than anyone other than Rashad Evans an say as far as MMA fighters go. An amateur wrestler like JBruin can attest to the fact of how hard it is to be that dominant at a high level.

    Anyways, I think Koscheck will be able to take GSP down, but GSP's is also superb and he's much better on his feet. It'll be a GSP win, but I wouldn't be surprised if Koscheck is able to lay and pray his way to a close decision especially in only a 3 round fight.
    Can't argue with your points. Koscheck is probably the best wrestler in the 170 pound class. 2 things to add though. #1, (and I'm sure everyone already assumes this) but GSP won't make the same mistake he made with Serra. I'd be willing to bet he is training his ass off for this because, yes, this will probably be his toughest fight so far. #2, I really don't see this going to a decision. Maybe late 3rd round, but I think you're really going to see GSP press the action like never before. He's gotta be really hungry to get another shot, and he's gonna want to prove he DESERVES the shot. Decisions are all well and good, but you need stoppages as well to prove your point. He'll be doing everything he can to finish the fight. Not taking anything away from Kos, but I think the diversity of GSP's game compared to that of Koscheck's will be more than Kos can deal with. Just my $0.02

  8. #318
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    Since we are breaking down the GSP-Koscheck fight, what does everyone think of UFC 74 as a whole? Here is the card.

    Main Card

    Randy Couture-Gabriel Gonzaga
    Roger Huerta-Alberto Crane(Swing bout)
    Georges St. Pierre-Josh Koscheck
    Joe Stevenson-Kurt Pellegrino
    Kendall Grove-Patrick Cote

    Undercard(might not be on TV)

    Travis Lutter-Ryan Jensen
    Renato Sobral-David Heath
    Frank Mir-Antoni Hardonk
    Clay Guida-Marcus Aurelio

    My first impression of this card is that it will be a great one. I think this one is even more stacked than 73. This one has a lot of my personal faves(Couture, GSP, Stevenson, Grove) and a lot of talent even on the undercard. Babalu and Mir were once contenders and still have some talent.

    I really hope they show the Guida-Aurelio fight. Remember Aurelio beat Gomi before in Pride. Of course it was a non title fight though, which Pride had far too many of.

  9. #319
    Hit it like a baby seal SmytheKing's Avatar




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    I'm looking forward to that card actually. When the first fight was announced (Couture/Gonzaga) I wasn't really that excited to tell you the truth. After seeing who they added to the card though, my anticipation has grown exponentially. There seems to be a lot of great matchups that should make for some interesting fights.

    The only one that doesn't seem to be that good a fight is the main event. I just think Gonzaga is going to roll over Couture. I really like Randy but I'm not sure that he'll be able to handle him. I hope I'm wrong though.

    I've already said how I feel about GSP/Koscheck in this thread, but I'll say a little more for the sake of it. I think GSP will run over Koscheck in this fight. He won't be as timid as Sanchez was and he's going to come out much better than he did against Serra. I think Koscheck will be a game fighter, but I don't think he has the skillset to match up against GSP. His best hope (like you said) is to just lay and pray the whole fight. . .but I don't see that happening.

    I think the Joe Daddy fight is a chance for him to be the guy to fight BJ or whoever he fights for the title. No doubt this is probably a #1 contender fight. The question to me is now who is he going to fight for the LW title though. Anyway, another discussion.

    Real excited to see what Grove can do on this one too. Probably his toughest opponent to date in Cote and it should be a real good test for him. I only hope that if he wins he doesn't do Tito's stupid gravedigger thing again. He looked like he was having an episode when he did it after his last fight.

    The other fights could be good too. One thing that I'm curious about quite frankly is why Frank Mir is still in the UFC. The only thing I can imagine is that Dana White is thinking he can return to form. Having watched his last three fights since coming back, I'm not sure what is giving him that impression.

  10. #320
    Let the kids play ASUcruz's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by SmytheKing View Post

    The only one that doesn't seem to be that good a fight is the main event. I just think Gonzaga is going to roll over Couture. I really like Randy but I'm not sure that he'll be able to handle him. I hope I'm wrong though.
    I agree, I don't really like Gonzaga's chances. Randy moved down to Light Heavyweight because the big grapplers gave him problems. Although he handled Tim Syliva, Sylvia is not a grappler by any means. Gonzaga has good ground skills and as evidenced by the Cro Cop fight, some pretty mean striking. That being said, everyone counted Randy out against Vitor Belfort. Everyone counted him out against Chuck. Everyone counted him out against Tito. Everyone counted him out against Tim Sylvia. The man has a certain affinity for defying the odds. I think his number might be up, but if he wins, I won't be surprised. He'll have to do it via ground and pound though. Don't think he'll be able to stay standing with Gonzaga for a 5 round fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smythking

    I think the Joe Daddy fight is a chance for him to be the guy to fight BJ or whoever he fights for the title. No doubt this is probably a #1 contender fight. The question to me is now who is he going to fight for the LW title though. Anyway, another discussion.
    This is definitley a #1 contender's fight for Stevenson and Pellegrino. Only question is who will be the champ. Anyways, this should be a really good fight. Stevenson has really sick grappling skills so I tend to think he'll be able to finish Pellegrino in the 2nd via submission.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smythking
    Real excited to see what Grove can do on this one too. Probably his toughest opponent to date in Cote and it should be a real good test for him. I only hope that if he wins he doesn't do Tito's stupid gravedigger thing again. He looked like he was having an episode when he did it after his last fight.
    I thought Grove would have some trouble against Alan Belcher a fairly talented fighter in his own right but Kendall walked right through him. Cote is a decent fight but I don't think he's that great. He's been living off his reputation of going toe to toe with Tito Ortiz when he was a late replacement for Guy Mezger. While that was a good performance he has done very little in MMA to date. I think Kendall will beat up Cote pretty good and will stop him due to strikes.

    If I'm not mistaken, I think Kendall now trains mostly with Couture at Legends gym rather than being an exclusive Team Punishment fighter. Not sure if that's true, thought I saw it in an MMA blog/site somewhere. Anyways if that's true, that's great for Kendall. I mean I don't think there are any really good Team Punishment fighters out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smythking
    The other fights could be good too. One thing that I'm curious about quite frankly is why Frank Mir is still in the UFC. The only thing I can imagine is that Dana White is thinking he can return to form. Having watched his last three fights since coming back, I'm not sure what is giving him that impression.
    It's fairly low risk for UFC to keep Frank Mir around. Same with Babalu. Both guys are still under contract so they might as well use them. If either guy returns the form, its good for the UFC, they can throw both guys into the mix and fans will know who they are. If they don't return to form they can just drop them from the talent pool. It would be nice if the UFC put those guys on Ultimate Fight Night cards to beef up those events but I guess that would be too much to ask.

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