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Thread: Crash Landing at SFO !

  1. #21
    mmmmm Taco's jammer06's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by juliochango View Post
    When you are operating an Internal Airway company, you are not afforded the luxury of cultural differences in your pilot. Competence and safe operations supersedes any cultural aspects. You just cannot blame a cultural aspect on pilot error or mishap.
    I have a cultural tradition of flipping tortillas by hand, on an open pit of fire. But, if I burn my hand off, I should go ahead and chalk it up to incompetence. Horrible example, but cultural aspects go out the window when you are flying a plane across the world. It is incompetence by the airline, for improper training.
    I thought I heard something about the dude still being in traning.
    what a very American sentiment

  2. #22
    Lucky Luc! DRGinLBC's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by DotUKings View Post
    Guess you were a little quick to play the racist card huh? Sometimes things are fact and not an issue of racism but in America what's the difference right?
    I was joking.
    nocturn, BeerMan and juliochango like this.

  3. #23
    1st Scoring Line Crazy_Ivan's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by juliochango View Post
    When you are operating an Internal Airway company, you are not afforded the luxury of cultural differences in your pilot. Competence and safe operations supersedes any cultural aspects. You just cannot blame a cultural aspect on pilot error or mishap.
    I have a cultural tradition of flipping tortillas by hand, on an open pit of fire. But, if I burn my hand off, I should go ahead and chalk it up to incompetence. Horrible example, but cultural aspects go out the window when you are flying a plane across the world. It is incompetence by the airline, for improper training.
    I thought I heard something about the dude still being in traning.
    Crashes due to culture and the massive respect that juniors are supposed to show their seniors have happened on more than one occasion, looking even further in to this I found this from a Malcolm Gladwell book.



    G: Korean Air had more plane crashes than almost any other airline in the world for a period at the end of the 1990s. When we think of airline crashes, we think, Oh, they must have had old planes. They must have had badly trained pilots. No. What they were struggling with was a cultural legacy, that Korean culture is hierarchical. You are obliged to be deferential toward your elders and superiors in a way that would be unimaginable in the U.S.

    But Boeing (BA, Fortune 500) and Airbus design modern, complex airplanes to be flown by two equals. That works beautifully in low-power-distance cultures [like the U.S., where hierarchies aren't as relevant]. But in cultures that have high power distance, it’s very difficult.

    I use the case study of a very famous plane crash in Guam of Korean Air. They’re flying along, and they run into a little bit of trouble, the weather’s bad. The pilot makes an error, and the co-pilot doesn’t correct him. But once Korean Air figured out that their problem was cultural, they fixed it.
    Also I can't remember the crash, but I know for a fact there was a crash where the co-pilot knew there was a severe problem but did not say a word because he was a junior and his culture meant he should not challenge the more senior man.

  4. #24
    mmmmm Taco's jammer06's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan View Post
    Crashes due to culture and the massive respect that juniors are supposed to show their seniors have happened on more than one occasion, looking even further in to this I found this from a Malcolm Gladwell book.





    Also I can't remember the crash, but I know for a fact there was a crash where the co-pilot knew there was a severe problem but did not say a word because he was a junior and his culture meant he should not challenge the more senior man.
    The interesting thing in that is mentioning how Boeing designed the plane. With the cultural difference the thing not mentioned is that there is usually a cultural safety redundancy to get them out of a massive mistake (prevent disastrous blood feuds and the like). I wonder how the Koreans would have built that into a plane, or if they even could.

  5. #25
    Everybody relax, I'm here KingThomas's Avatar




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    nocturn, BDTR and lunchbox like this.

  6. #26
    Sarcastic Ass nocturn's Avatar




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    Pfft! Everyone knows its the Chinese and not the Koreans that have trouble with L's.

  7. #27
    1st Scoring Line Shackleford's Avatar




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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by juliochango View Post
    When you are operating an Internal Airway company, you are not afforded the luxury of cultural differences in your pilot. Competence and safe operations supersedes any cultural aspects. You just cannot blame a cultural aspect on pilot error or mishap.
    I have a cultural tradition of flipping tortillas by hand, on an open pit of fire. But, if I burn my hand off, I should go ahead and chalk it up to incompetence. Horrible example, but cultural aspects go out the window when you are flying a plane across the world. It is incompetence by the airline, for improper training.
    I thought I heard something about the dude still being in traning.
    Crashes due to culture and the massive respect that juniors are supposed to show their seniors have happened on more than one occasion, looking even further in to this I found this from a Malcolm Gladwell book.



    G: Korean Air had more plane crashes than almost any other airline in the world for a period at the end of the 1990s. When we think of airline crashes, we think, Oh, they must have had old planes. They must have had badly trained pilots. No. What they were struggling with was a cultural legacy, that Korean culture is hierarchical. You are obliged to be deferential toward your elders and superiors in a way that would be unimaginable in the U.S.

    But Boeing (BA, Fortune 500) and Airbus design modern, complex airplanes to be flown by two equals. That works beautifully in low-power-distance cultures [like the U.S., where hierarchies aren't as relevant]. But in cultures that have high power distance, it’s very difficult.

    I use the case study of a very famous plane crash in Guam of Korean Air. They’re flying along, and they run into a little bit of trouble, the weather’s bad. The pilot makes an error, and the co-pilot doesn’t correct him. But once Korean Air figured out that their problem was cultural, they fixed it.
    Also I can't remember the crash, but I know for a fact there was a crash where the co-pilot knew there was a severe problem but did not say a word because he was a junior and his culture meant he should not challenge the more senior man.
    Another one was here in the US (PDX) back in the late 70's / 80's .

    Plane was circling , captain was focused on a problem and failed to realize the plane was low on fuel.
    Because the crew were trained in the hierarchy type culture that was prevalent in the day in Aerospace
    No one questioned the Captain .
    Plane crashed into a mountain , basically ran out of fuel .

    I forgot the airline but once they did the investigation they realized the problem and from that point on the all crew are trained to question / speak up when they feel something is wrong .

  8. #28
    I revoke Man Cards FishMonger's Avatar




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    Couldn't this be referring to the fact that a plane crash tends to be, I don't know... FRIGHTening?
    Last edited by FishMonger; July 9th, 2013 at 01:12 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan View Post
    Crashes due to culture and the massive respect that juniors are supposed to show their seniors have happened on more than one occasion, looking even further in to this I found this from a Malcolm Gladwell book.
    Granted. There is no denying that. What I am saying, is that the Airline deserves culpability if they are letting this "cultural" aspect dictate the safety of their operations, IN 2013!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRGinLBC View Post
    I was joking.
    Yes, we saw that (at least I did). And I laughed my ass off.
    nocturn likes this.

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