Thread: Employment contract help

I'm set to move and work for a company in China in the near future. My contract stipulates that I'll have an initial training period for one year after which they'll offer me a permanent contract assuming I don't make an idiot out of myself. Normal stuff. The kicker is that if I'm offered a permanent contract, they expect me to work for them for a minimum of five years...should I resign anytime before five years they want/expect me to pay back all expenses for that initial training period of one year (flights, salary, the whole shebang). The cost of all that will easily be well over $50,000. Excuse my ignorance, but even if I sign, is that really enforceable? If I resign then I'll obviously return home here in the States, is pursuing me across borders really feasible? I understand they want to protect their investment like anyone would, but this is pretty damn close to indentured servitude. Obviously, I could magically become a crap employee and force them to fire me but keep in mind, I'll be living in THEIR country.

I'm trying to get a new (and reasonable) stipulation in the contract that would allow me to resign and not pay back the money should a personal and/or family emergency occur. I should also add that this is a very large firm so chasing $50,000 ish across borders won't affect their bottom line at all. Help!

Originally Posted by kba4life2

I'm set to move and work for a company in China in the near future. My contract stipulates that I'll have an initial training period for one year after which they'll offer me a permanent contract assuming I don't make an idiot out of myself. Normal stuff. The kicker is that if I'm offered a permanent contract, they expect me to work for them for a minimum of five years...should I resign anytime before five years they want/expect me to pay back all expenses for that initial training period of one year (flights, salary, the whole shebang). The cost of all that will easily be well over $50,000. Excuse my ignorance, but even if I sign, is that really enforceable? If I resign then I'll obviously return home here in the States, is pursuing me across borders really feasible? I understand they want to protect their investment like anyone would, but this is pretty damn close to indentured servitude. Obviously, I could magically become a crap employee and force them to fire me but keep in mind, I'll be living in THEIR country.

I'm trying to get a new (and reasonable) stipulation in the contract that would allow me to resign and not pay back the money should a personal and/or family emergency occur. I should also add that this is a very large firm so chasing $50,000 ish across borders won't affect their bottom line at all. Help!

I'm not a lawyer, and you should consult one before proceeding, but my 2 cents:

Ask them to prorate it based on time on the job (i.e. Every 3 months it drops 5%).

If they're willing to negotiate any part of it, I bet they would even be inclined to tear that whole thing out. Your argument is that you're willing to move halfway around the world to take the job, which carries its own costs and risks, they should be willing to take the risk that you aren't going to leave.

From their perspective, it sounds like they may have had a bad experience with people going there, getting trained, hating it, and leaving.

Originally Posted by Birdman

From their perspective, it sounds like they may have had a bad experience with people going there, getting trained, hating it, and leaving.

It happened to an Aussie they hired before for the same position. Apparently, he was married but his wife stayed home and he couldn't hack it, allegedly. They are pretty damn strict with their negotiations, even the medical emergency bit I wrote in the first post may not be allowed. With all that said, the only reason I'm considering this is BC it appears to be a pretty damn good opportunity and the pay is fantastic...I'll be able to save quite a bit when I'm there. They already flew me out there last month to tour their facilities and to check out the city so I know first hand that it's a reputable company

From a legal perspective, I imagine you need to consult with a labor lawyer, possibly someone with experience with this type of contract. Although I'm not sure how you'd go about finding that person. At the end of the day, I imagine you'll want to at least negotiate some termination conditions and responsibilities should you need to cancel the contract. I'd also be uncomfortable if there wasn't language to clearly lay out your expectations and costs should you need to terminate. An open ended clause could be widely interpreted should the situation be realized.

Plus, 5 years is a pretty long time. Do the costs decrease as you "earn" time in the company? If so, is the formula for this defined, well understood and agreed to by all parties? Additionally, consider that the legal system will be foriegn, so if you get advice from a lawyer based in the US, they may not understand the labor contract law of China (the country or region you will be employed in). Assuming you are able to leave China should the contract terminate, and the company has no legal recourse to enforce the contract and recover expenses; you may still want to consider if your professional reputation will be adversely impacted. Is this a "small world" of contacts / players in your industry? Will word get around that you don't honor your commitments?

From my experience with the Chinese they probably will chase you to the end of the earth for the money but they should be willing to negotiate a pro-rated clause. You should also stipulate that any promotions during those 5 years be allowed to negotiate the cancellation of that clause.
Definitely consult a lawyer in China. I have no idea what they can do to you and I doubt they would agree to have an international mediator.
Be sure you have a taxman here and there too. Or at the very least have the company be very clear on who's going to get what. I know the personal taxes for most chinese are very low but I have no idea about foreigners.

Personal taxes will be quite low for me. As a last resort, I hope i can get the medical/family emergency clause to be vague (I.E. not include dates, etc). I've had close family members that have had serious stuff happen to them in the past few years. Documentation of their hospital stays could, sadly, come in handy if they were to pursue me should I break that contract. A family member that deteriorates after a hospital stay would surely hold up in court as a "medical/family emergency". It's such a shame that I even have to think of crap like this. Everything appeared good to go and now they want to screw around like this

For specific questions, you definitely need to consult a lawyer.

There are a couple of general points I'd like to make based on the post. First, what jurisdiction governs the terms of the contract; China, California, other? This is absolutely crucial to answer questions as to your legal rights. Second, you say that the contract states they can offer you permanent employment after your training. In general, an agreement to agree to something in the future is not binding. Further investigation into the specifics of this provision is necessary as to whether it is an agreement to agree, an option and whether it is unilateral or bilateral.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by xcheck

For specific questions, you definitely need to consult a lawyer.

There are a couple of general points I'd like to make based on the post. First, what jurisdiction governs the terms of the contract; China, California, other? This is absolutely crucial to answer questions as to your legal rights. Second, you say that the contract states they can offer you permanent employment after your training. In general, an agreement to agree to something in the future is not binding. Further investigation into the specifics of this provision is necessary as to whether it is an agreement to agree, an option and whether it is unilateral or bilateral.

Good luck.

Appreciate it. It's odd, the contract came from the company's headquarters in Hong Kong, although I'll be working at one of their locations in mainland China. Adding another twist, I interviewed a few times at one of their local offices here in Southern California. To answer the question, I have no idea which jurisdiction the terms would fall under...I would assume HK though since that is where the agreement originated. The main reason I posted on here was to see if anyone knew if I were to break the contract early and return home, would this company be able to literally cross borders to find me and file a lawsuit? If I break a contract in Hong Kong but don't commit a heinous crime what are the consequences? It's not as though they can garnish future wages that I earn in the US

Originally Posted by kba4life2

Appreciate it. It's odd, the contract came from the company's headquarters in Hong Kong, although I'll be working at one of their locations in mainland China. Adding another twist, I interviewed a few times at one of their local offices here in Southern California. To answer the question, I have no idea which jurisdiction the terms would fall under...I would assume HK though since that is where the agreement originated. The main reason I posted on here was to see if anyone knew if I were to break the contract early and return home, would this company be able to literally cross borders to find me and file a lawsuit? If I break a contract in Hong Kong but don't commit a heinous crime what are the consequences? It's not as though they can garnish future wages that I earn in the US

Forget the consequences think of the greater good. You selling your soul just might be the deal that the devil needs to give the Kings the Stanley Cup. SIGN AWAY!