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Thread: ***Washington Capitals vs. LA Kings GDT 03/11/17 7:30PM***

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    It depends on what you mean by "promoted within". Comparing the two teams:

    HAWKS
    11 free agents: Campbell, Daring, Desjardins, Hossa, Kempny, Kero, Panarin, Rasmussen, Rozsival, Tootoo, van Riemsdyk
    4 trade: Anisimov, Jurco, Oduya, Panik
    9 drafted: Crawford, Hartman, Hjalmarsson, Kane, Keith, Kruger, Schmaltz, Seabrook, Toews

    KINGS
    1 free agent: Muzzin
    5 trade: Bishop, Carter, Gaborik, Iginla, McNabb
    17 drafted: Andreoff, Brown, Clifford, Doughty, Dowd, Forbort, Gravel, Kempe, Kopitar, Ladue, Lewis, Martinez, Nolan, Pearson, Quick, Shore, Toffoli

    As for rookies, the Hawks have 4 on their roster: Hartman, Kempny, Kero, and Schmaltz, 2 of whom they drafted. Also, Kempny is a rookie in the NHL but he's a 26 yr old pro from the Czech Republic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    It depends on what you mean by "promoted within". Comparing the two teams:

    HAWKS
    11 free agents: Campbell, Daring, Desjardins, Hossa, Kempny, Kero, Panarin, Rasmussen, Rozsival, Tootoo, van Riemsdyk
    4 trade: Anisimov, Jurco, Oduya, Panik
    9 drafted: Crawford, Hartman, Hjalmarsson, Kane, Keith, Kruger, Schmaltz, Seabrook, Toews

    KINGS
    1 free agent: Muzzin
    5 trade: Bishop, Carter, Gaborik, Iginla, McNabb
    17 drafted: Andreoff, Brown, Clifford, Doughty, Dowd, Forbort, Gravel, Kempe, Kopitar, Ladue, Lewis, Martinez, Nolan, Pearson, Quick, Shore, Toffoli

    As for rookies, the Hawks have 4 on their roster: Hartman, Kempny, Kero, and Schmaltz, 2 of whom they drafted. Also, Kempny is a rookie in the NHL but he's a 26 yr old pro from the Czech Republic.
    I would add that Hartman and Schmaltz are both first round picks too. Great job of Bowman picking those guys, but it is not a bold move to have them in the lineup. It's the equivalent of the Kings playing Pearson a couple years ago.

    Ideally, any team promotes from within and the rookies are allowed to come up and play without being counted on to be a franchise savior.

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    Just how terrible has dl's ufa decisions been if muzz is the only one on the team?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jammer06 View Post
    Just how terrible has dl's ufa decisions been if muzz is the only one on the team?
    I think it's a broader issue than that. I think many many hockey players just don't want to go west. After the 11-12 season I thought the Kings would be a destination spot for UFAs and for a number of players. After 13-14 there's NO WAY a player shouldn't have wanted to take a discount to play for the Kings and have a good shot at a Cup...but that didn't happen. Why? It depends on the player but I'd bet that a majority of them just don't see LA (or the west in general) as a place they want to play. Very few dreamed of playing for the Kings as little kids, but MILLIONS have dreamed of playing for the Leafs, Canadians, Rangers, Wings, Hawks, and Bruins...and others of the Flyers, Oilers, Penguins, and a few other teams. The system here is also stifling and not "fun" to play (even though it wins). Some also see LA as dangerous or a place where kids (and wives) can't go outdoors safely. A buddy of mine lived on Long Island and knows Rob Scuderi. He told me that he wasn't going to sign with LA because he thought it was too dangerous a place to move to. Some think that LA doesn't take hockey seriously, so only players who want to play in places they don't have that pressure want to go.

    So...why is this relevant? Because if 70% of all UFAs won't come to LA unless DL significantly overpays them, that leaves only a handful of players to bring to LA. Of those, how many are the right fit in terms of position, skill set, mental attitude, etc? Not many.

    DL's gotta deal with reality and not some fantasy hockey world where players don't make their own decisions of what team to play on. It's easy to sit on the couch and say DL should have signed Panarin or Eric Staal, but if the guys wouldn't come to LA without a huge overpayment, how can he be criticized for not signing better UFAs?
    Last edited by jt; March 13th, 2017 at 04:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    I think it's a broader issue than that. I think many many hockey players just don't want to go west. After the 11-12 season I thought the Kings would be a destination spot for UFAs and for a number of players. After 13-14 there's NO WAY a player shouldn't have wanted to take a discount to play for the Kings and have a good shot at a Cup...but that didn't happen. Why? It depends on the player but I'd bet that a majority of them just don't see LA (or the west in general) as a place they want to play. Very few dreamed of playing for the Kings as little kids, but MILLIONS have dreamed of playing for the Leafs, Canadians, Rangers, Wings, Hawks, and Bruins...and others of the Flyers, Oilers, Penguins, and a few other teams. The system here is also stifling and not "fun" to play (even though it wins). Some also see LA as dangerous or a place where kids (and wives) can't go outdoors safely. A buddy of mine lived on Long Island and knows Rob Scuderi. He told me that he wasn't going to sign with LA because he thought it was too dangerous a place to move to. Some think that LA doesn't take hockey seriously, so only players who want to play in places they don't have that pressure want to go.

    So...why is this relevant? Because if 70% of all UFAs won't come to LA unless DL significantly overpays them, that leaves only a handful of players to bring to LA. Of those, how many are the right fit in terms of position, skill set, mental attitude, etc? Not many.

    DL's gotta deal with reality and not some fantasy hockey world where players don't make their own decisions of what team to play on. It's easy to sit on the couch and say DL should have signed Panarin or Eric Staal, but if the guys wouldn't come to LA without a huge overpayment, how can he be criticized for not signing better UFAs?
    I think you're overthinking. Kings haven't had cap space to bring in any free agents worth anything, and almost all UFA's approaching 30 are overvalued anyway. Anything the Kings could have used to throw at free agents was used to re-sign — and oftentimes overpay — existing assets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    I think it's a broader issue than that. I think many many hockey players just don't want to go west. After the 11-12 season I thought the Kings would be a destination spot for UFAs and for a number of players. After 13-14 there's NO WAY a player shouldn't have wanted to take a discount to play for the Kings and have a good shot at a Cup...but that didn't happen. Why? It depends on the player but I'd bet that a majority of them just don't see LA (or the west in general) as a place they want to play. Very few dreamed of playing for the Kings as little kids, but MILLIONS have dreamed of playing for the Leafs, Canadians, Rangers, Wings, Hawks, and Bruins...and others of the Flyers, Oilers, Penguins, and a few other teams. The system here is also stifling and not "fun" to play (even though it wins). Some also see LA as dangerous or a place where kids (and wives) can't go outdoors safely. A buddy of mine lived on Long Island and knows Rob Scuderi. He told me that he wasn't going to sign with LA because he thought it was too dangerous a place to move to. Some think that LA doesn't take hockey seriously, so only players who want to play in places they don't have that pressure want to go.

    So...why is this relevant? Because if 70% of all UFAs won't come to LA unless DL significantly overpays them, that leaves only a handful of players to bring to LA. Of those, how many are the right fit in terms of position, skill set, mental attitude, etc? Not many.

    DL's gotta deal with reality and not some fantasy hockey world where players don't make their own decisions of what team to play on. It's easy to sit on the couch and say DL should have signed Panarin or Eric Staal, but if the guys wouldn't come to LA without a huge overpayment, how can he be criticized for not signing better UFAs?
    I think all of that plays a huge part into the difficulty but at the same time he absolutely hit a home run with willie mitchell and rob scuderi. The entire UFA market is fraught with failure, but at the same time the last 8? Ufa's hes signed have all seen their way out through ontario and manchester?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TBrown33 View Post
    I think you're overthinking. Kings haven't had cap space to bring in any free agents worth anything, and almost all UFA's approaching 30 are overvalued anyway. Anything the Kings could have used to throw at free agents was used to re-sign — and oftentimes overpay — existing assets.
    I don't think so at all. It's something many GMs have talked about. It's HARD to get UFAs to sign out west, even with the Canadian teams, unless there is an overpayment above the overpayment UFAs already get. Name the last "good" UFA signings out west.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jammer06 View Post
    I think all of that plays a huge part into the difficulty but at the same time he absolutely hit a home run with willie mitchell and rob scuderi. The entire UFA market is fraught with failure, but at the same time the last 8? Ufa's hes signed have all seen their way out through ontario and manchester?
    He did, but at the time those signings were HUGE risks. Scuderi was a MASSIVE overpayment by all accounts. Not one commentator thought he was worth what DL paid him...turns out he was but mostly because he changed the attitude of the team - not really because of his play on the ice. And Mitchell was a giant risk because of injuries. NOBODY wanted to sign him besides DL, so it's not like he had much risk.

    Looking back I don't know who he could have realistically signed who would have made a difference.

    And like I said...name the last "good" UFA signings out west.

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    Default ***Washington Capitals vs. LA Kings GDT 03/11/17 7:30PM***

    JT ain't overthinking anything. They don't call it east coast bias for nothing. You think all the media attention of eastern teams doesn't plant a seed in young players minds? If so, you should call the CEOs of every major corporation that exists and let them know their marketing and advertisement campaigns don't actually do anything, that they're probably just 'overthinking it'..
    Last edited by DarkLeftHand; March 13th, 2017 at 06:15 PM.

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