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  1. #31
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    I blame Toffoli for this thread. If he could shoot the puck into a wide open net everyone is talking about tying up the series in Game 4. Instead, we get Dean retread threads.

    Speaking of which, while the Lucic trade was really bad asset management, it wasn't until it came out the he was hoping to retain Bishop and wasn't just looking at him as a rental that I realized that Dean had completely lost his mind.

  2. #32
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    Had Jones and Miller actually stayed in Boston, it would be much easier to accept that trade as the gamble it was.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goon Squad View Post
    Had Jones and Miller actually stayed in Boston, it would be much easier to accept that trade as the gamble it was.
    Or even if Jones had wound up somewhere other than back in our division. Even the Central would have been better.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by anjae11eden View Post
    I'm trying to understand the tone of this post. So it's like hey thanks a lot for screwing us over with these stupid trades, and yeah sure you got us 2 stupid Cups, but really...thanks for screwing us over. Do I have it right?
    It was an honest thank you to DL for the 2 cups and he did a great job on his way to those cups, but then completely went against the way he built it trying to hang on too long...

    Quote Originally Posted by Moog View Post
    Sorta, but not really.

    Fans are pissed because Deano went against nearly everything he said he would not do.
    He preached over and over again about keeping a sustainable model to chance for Cups for years without mortgaging the future.

    He did the opposite, and mortgaged the future for an assumed "one more shot" at a Cup mentality.



    Nobody in their right mind will every try to take away the greatness of the 2 Cup winning teams Deano built.
    What is troubling and down right horrific is the wreck he left behind pursuing the short term thinking he thought would get him more Cups.....and this went against all that he preached against.
    Pretty much nails it! Thanks for translating/adding...

    Quote Originally Posted by 05/29/93 View Post
    BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!! DL could do very little wrong from 2006 to 2014 (except for the Cloutier situation), but his luck/mojo/ whatever it should be called ran out. As for whether the current front office can put together an elite team, I'm more optimistic. Blake has actually made several good moves during his first year (Iafollo and Brickley signings, Gaborik trade), and the team is in better (relatively speaking) shape then a year ago. It's far from elite, though, and this summer will be crucial in terms of whether the Kings get back to elite anytime soon.
    I am with you, I think Blake has made calculated moves that have made sense all while managing assets well.

    Quote Originally Posted by VCRW View Post
    My question asking if 2 Cups is enough was not about the actual number of championships won. It was about current depleted state of the organization. Lombardi promised to build a Detroit model that would create a perennial contender out of our “lowly” Kings. But look at the pedestrian pipeline players Lombardi left behind. Look at the LW mess. Look at the paucity of NHL quality defensemen currently in or brought up from Ontario.

    Yes, Dean deserves his halo for being the saint and visionary who brought winning to L.A. There can be no argument about that. But similarly, there can be no doubt that Lombardi lost the plot badly in both his contract negotiations and his trading agenda.
    And what is so unfortunately obvious (especially watching Jones/Miller) is the talent DL gave away going off the rails after the cups had been won...it made zero sense and that is the asset management failure I am lamenting at this time...And what is such a bummer is had he not gone off the rails he could have sustained perennial status just with good average asset management, but in an odd twist he tore it down and raided the cupboards faster than he built the empire. Like my kid with legos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenhole View Post
    Hindsight...would we all be happier with a more cap friendly team and still no Cups? He did what was asked of him, then failed in trying to sustain it
    The point of the post was thanks, but my goodness now that I see how these 2 players developed, what I thought was a bad decision and trade at the time is now noticeably the worst of all the moves he made. I would still take the 2 cups and be in this position if we had to be, but that is the sad thing, we did not have to be. The widow could still easily be wide open.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeadInjury View Post
    I blame Toffoli for this thread. If he could shoot the puck into a wide open net everyone is talking about tying up the series in Game 4. Instead, we get Dean retread threads.

    Speaking of which, while the Lucic trade was really bad asset management, it wasn't until it came out the he was hoping to retain Bishop and wasn't just looking at him as a rental that I realized that Dean had completely lost his mind.
    This has nothing to do Toffoli missing a goal, Kopi not scoring in games 1 &2 or Brown missing an empty net, it has to do with watching Colin Miller skate circles around the Kings and control the game when he is on the ice, watching Martin Jones more than capably win for the Sharks, with a good but less proficient defense then the King's defense, all for 1 year of pedestrian play from Milan Lucic. Look at the playoff teams, the Kings are the only team that looks like they really are unable to compete with their opponent on a skill level. The only reason these games have been close is JQ standing on his head in game 1 and 2 and the Kings playing more physically and actually having some balance vs. the Knights in game 3.

    Really just pointing out though at this time that of all the moves that have been discussed that DL failed on, the best was probably Jeff Carter, the worst has turned out to be Jones/Miller for Lucic, it is just that it is obvious now.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingscup4426 View Post
    I would still take the 2 cups and be in this position if we had to be, but that is the sad thing, we did not have to be. The widow could still easily be wide open.
    Unfortunately, I'm far too much of a gentleman to take advantage of a grieving lady. Even after drinking the 2 cups.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingscup4426 View Post
    It was an honest thank you to DL for the 2 cups and he did a great job on his way to those cups, but then completely went against the way he built it trying to hang on too long...
    He didn't try to do anything many other GMs haven't tried. Ken Holland was successful for, what, 20 years doing the same thing.

    I am with you, I think Blake has made calculated moves that have made sense all while managing assets well.
    You might want to give it more than 10 months before you start praising Blake.

    And what is so unfortunately obvious (especially watching Jones/Miller) is the talent DL gave away going off the rails after the cups had been won...it made zero sense and that is the asset management failure I am lamenting at this time...And what is such a bummer is had he not gone off the rails he could have sustained perennial status just with good average asset management, but in an odd twist he tore it down and raided the cupboards faster than he built the empire. Like my kid with legos.
    There are many GMs who "give away" talent in a similar manner....sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Lombardi did far more good than bad here...not even close. And it's not even worth debating this particular trade...it didn't work out...big deal.

    The widow could still easily be wide open.
    With Colin Miller on the team? Huh? If you want to argue DL traded too many picks...sure than can have an affect. But Miller and a goalie that wasn't going to be here anyway? Really?

    This has nothing to do Toffoli missing a goal, Kopi not scoring in games 1 &2 or Brown missing an empty net, it has to do with watching Colin Miller skate circles around the Kings and control the game when he is on the ice, watching Martin Jones more than capably win for the Sharks, with a good but less proficient defense then the King's defense, all for 1 year of pedestrian play from Milan Lucic.
    Jones wasn't going to stay with the Kings. You are better off arguing that we could have gotten more for Jones...but as it is goalies don't bring much in trades anymore. As to Colin Miller: I heard the same things about Matt Moulsen and Ted Purcell after leaving the Kings. No big loss...and neither were Miller and Jones.

    But like I said earlier time to move on. Hopefully, Blake can do as good a job as you think and all will be well. He needs to try to keep Futa in the fold and make damn sure Bill Ranford doesn't go anywhere. I'm not sure Stevens should stay but I think he is...so there isn't much one can say about that.

    Good post.

    jom

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingscup4426 View Post
    ...for trading Colin Miller and Martin Jones away to bring in Milan Lucic...for all the trades good and bad, and all the signings good and bad that move right there has to among the worst, if not the worst, of all the moves you ever penned or even thought about no less actually executed...Thank God you happened to put together lightning in a bottle twice and bring us 2 cups (which I am glad I got to see, thinking I never would) but my goodness could that trade continue to look any worse, it gets worse by the minute. The other trades and signings and all the other crap at least the result was 2 cups. The Miller/Jones for Lucic after the window had shut was just plain stupid, like really dumb

    Since that trade, Boston = Great; Sharks = pretty good; Kings = WTF? Is this the black hole again?

    DL, The Legend Continues!
    Is that you Sam?
    Sam McMaster???

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCRW View Post
    My question asking if 2 Cups is enough was not about the actual number of championships won. It was about current depleted state of the organization. Lombardi promised to build a Detroit model that would create a perennial contender out of our “lowly” Kings. But look at the pedestrian pipeline players Lombardi left behind. Look at the LW mess. Look at the paucity of NHL quality defensemen currently in or brought up from Ontario.

    Yes, Dean deserves his halo for being the saint and visionary who brought winning to L.A. There can be no argument about that. But similarly, there can be no doubt that Lombardi lost the plot badly in both his contract negotiations and his trading agenda.
    It's a fascinating story. I can't wait to hear Deano's take on it. He has been silent since leaving.

    Such a well thought out and executed plan for half a decade, followed by incredible success for three years, then a rapid descent due to hubris and an inability to follow his own principles. It's a classic Hollywood rags to riches to rags story. Hopefully he feels like telling it one day.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingscup4426 View Post
    And what is so unfortunately obvious (especially watching Jones/Miller) is the talent DL gave away going off the rails after the cups had been won...it made zero sense and that is the asset management failure I am lamenting at this time...And what is such a bummer is had he not gone off the rails he could have sustained perennial status just with good average asset management, but in an odd twist he tore it down and raided the cupboards faster than he built the empire. Like my kid with legos.



    The point of the post was thanks, but my goodness now that I see how these 2 players developed, what I thought was a bad decision and trade at the time is now noticeably the worst of all the moves he made. I would still take the 2 cups and be in this position if we had to be, but that is the sad thing, we did not have to be. The widow could still easily be wide open.



    This has nothing to do Toffoli missing a goal, Kopi not scoring in games 1 &2 or Brown missing an empty net, it has to do with watching Colin Miller skate circles around the Kings and control the game when he is on the ice, watching Martin Jones more than capably win for the Sharks, with a good but less proficient defense then the King's defense, all for 1 year of pedestrian play from Milan Lucic. Look at the playoff teams, the Kings are the only team that looks like they really are unable to compete with their opponent on a skill level. The only reason these games have been close is JQ standing on his head in game 1 and 2 and the Kings playing more physically and actually having some balance vs. the Knights in game 3.

    Really just pointing out though at this time that of all the moves that have been discussed that DL failed on, the best was probably Jeff Carter, the worst has turned out to be Jones/Miller for Lucic, it is just that it is obvious now.
    Miller was and kind of still is, very much an unknown. I know in hindsight the trade looks even worse than it did at the time, but Miller was also left unprotected by Boston which is pretty telling about where they saw his value as well. Even Vegas has him on their 3rd pairing. Don't get me wrong he's played well and at the most important time of the year, but it's still a pretty small sampling.

    I share you're frustration, but it's just not quite as bad until you have hindsight. It's not like it's Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat and Michael Latta.

  10. #40
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    That particular Lucic trade is the difference between this team contending for 5+ more years and what it is now. Kings had 13th overall pick in that draft and Miller and Jones as trade assets, which they could easily convert into another top 20 pick. Now look at the Kings forward line-up and add two of (your choice) DeBrusk, Barzal, Connor, Boeser, Konecny. All taken 13th or later. The Kings were GIFTED in that draft a franchise-altering opportunity by being perfectly positioned with a high pick and two tradeable assets easily convertible into another if not two more first rounders in a FANTASTIC draft and did not recognize it.

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