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  1. #31
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    I'd generally agree with what USCKingsfan wrote. I'd probably bump Vegas and Minnesota down a level. But the Kings and Ducks are equally screwed with bad contracts. The Kings core (1C, 1D, 1G) is clearly better. The Kings never signed a mistake on the order of the Kesler extension. The Ducks, like almost every team in the league, have better youth. Most likely because their internal cap forced them to get younger rather than overpay veterans.

    Both are a long way from the elite playoff contenders. The Kings have the top end talent but are devoid of young, cheap talent (thanks Dean). Blake is trying to fill the gaps with the college FA signings but there aren't many first round talents available for free. The rebuild will take a couple more draft classes at a minimum.

  2. #32
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    The Standings and Playoff Success.

    That's how you determine who is better. It's very, very simple. Doesn't matter if it's incremental or a wide gap. You play to win points to get better seeds in the playoffs to try and win the championship. The Ducks have done better than the Kings since 2014, all four seasons, in the Standings and both were equally dismissed in the Playoffs this year.

    There is absolutely nothing anyone could point to that says that the Kings are better, or in a better position than Anaheim other than fandom preference.

  3. #33
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    Based on general trends I will say anyone that wants to set odds on bounce backs would probably make easy money on the following:

    Anze Kopitar point production next season Over/Under 92 points Take the under (regression to mean)
    Dustin Brown Point production next season over/under 60 points Take the under (regression to mean)
    Tanner pearson point production next season over/under 40 points Take the over (Still improving, usage and partners should impact upwards next season)
    Tyler toffoli goal production next season over/under 24 goals Take the over (this one is tougher but i have to believe he will continue to get PP time)
    Trevor Lewis goal production next season over/under 14 goals Take the over (he did miss a lot of games, didn't benefit from Jeff Carter missing for his usage)

    Not sure what sportsbook here would let me parlay that but it they should let me have something like 8/1 odds minimum though I think it should be 15/1.

  4. #34
    Bring on Vancouver!
    USCKingsFan31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo Blando View Post
    The Standings and Playoff Success.

    That's how you determine who is better. It's very, very simple. Doesn't matter if it's incremental or a wide gap. You play to win points to get better seeds in the playoffs to try and win the championship. The Ducks have done better than the Kings since 2014, all four seasons, in the Standings and both were equally dismissed in the Playoffs this year.

    There is absolutely nothing anyone could point to that says that the Kings are better, or in a better position than Anaheim other than fandom preference.
    That's how you determine who is better. Which is fine. By your criteria, the Ducks are clearly better.

    I just don't think that this criteria is the be all and end all.

    First of all, I'm simply looking at the present-day Ducks and Kings, not the past four seasons. Past four seasons is arbitrary. Why not make it past eight seasons? If we do that, Kings are suddenly miles ahead of the Ducks.

    This year, yes, the Ducks finished higher in the standings. But only by a negligible three points. They went to overtime three more times than the Kings did, big deal. Their goal differential was 17 goals worse than the Kings, which I think is a far better statistical indicator than a couple points in the standings. The Kings ranked higher in goals for, goals against, power play and penalty kill.

    The list goes on and on. The Kings were the better team this year. That the Ducks happened to finish a few points ahead of them in the standings was nothing more than a bit of simple variance.

    It's the one concept that you always seem to argue adamantly against that blows my mind since you seem so rational and intelligent otherwise. To act is if "luck", or what it actually is (simple variance) doesn't exist is crazy to me.

    Put a few different ways...

    If we flip a fair coin ten times and it lands on Heads seven of them, Heads isn't better than Tails. It's just short-term variance.

    If all the Ducks are better this year because of their placement in the standings... what if the regular season were 11 games long? The Kings at 9-1-1 were far superior to the Ducks at 6-4-1. If the regular season were 77 games long, their 39-25-13 falls short of LA's 43-28-7. What if it were 944 games long? What the two teams happened to be at the 82-game mark doesn't immediately solve for which team is "better". The underlying stats don't lie.

  5. #35
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    John a90's Avatar
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    That's a lot of conversation back and forth to just come up with the conclusion that both teams suck right now.

  6. #36
    Bring on Vancouver!
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    Quote Originally Posted by John a90 View Post
    That's a lot of conversation back and forth to just come up with the conclusion that both teams suck right now.
    Eh what's the point of making a cameo if I can't get into a long-winded argument with Mondo in which we both end up agreeing to disagree?!?

  7. #37
    Bring on Vancouver!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiecat View Post
    I'd generally agree with what USCKingsfan wrote. I'd probably bump Vegas and Minnesota down a level. But the Kings and Ducks are equally screwed with bad contracts. The Kings core (1C, 1D, 1G) is clearly better. The Kings never signed a mistake on the order of the Kesler extension. The Ducks, like almost every team in the league, have better youth. Most likely because their internal cap forced them to get younger rather than overpay veterans.

    Both are a long way from the elite playoff contenders. The Kings have the top end talent but are devoid of young, cheap talent (thanks Dean). Blake is trying to fill the gaps with the college FA signings but there aren't many first round talents available for free. The rebuild will take a couple more draft classes at a minimum.
    Agree on the Vegas bump in spirit... Was thinking all playoffs long that the winner of Jets Preds goes all the way. Think they are a tier above, playing the same brand of hockey Vegas does but with better overall talent.

    But gotta be fair to the Knights, they keep proving their worth. Until they show signs of slowing down, they belong in that Tier 1 conversation!

  8. #38
    4th Line Insurance Policy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo Blando View Post
    The Standings and Playoff Success.

    That's how you determine who is better. It's very, very simple. Doesn't matter if it's incremental or a wide gap. You play to win points to get better seeds in the playoffs to try and win the championship. The Ducks have done better than the Kings since 2014, all four seasons, in the Standings and both were equally dismissed in the Playoffs this year.

    There is absolutely nothing anyone could point to that says that the Kings are better, or in a better position than Anaheim other than fandom preference.
    Nor apparently is there anything at all that you could point to that says the opposite, as evidenced by your hilarious failure to do so.

    If you're not going to talk roster depth, team speed or skill, special teams, core players, coaching, management, or goaltending, today and going forward, then you've done nothing to disprove this statement - that it is possible the Kings might have fared better against Anaheim than they did against Vegas.

    And if you're going to throw around the fandom preference insult (twice), try and know what you're talking about next time.

  9. #39
    Stanley Cup Champions !!
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  10. #40
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    Mondo Blando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goon Squad View Post
    Nor apparently is there anything at all that you could point to that says the opposite, as evidenced by your hilarious failure to do so.

    If you're not going to talk roster depth, team speed or skill, special teams, core players, coaching, management, or goaltending, today and going forward, then you've done nothing to disprove this statement - that it is possible the Kings might have fared better against Anaheim than they did against Vegas.

    And if you're going to throw around the fandom preference insult (twice), try and know what you're talking about next time.
    Utter, laughable hogwash.

    The Ducks rate higher than the Kings in every conceivable category, especially those that actually matter.

    You play the regular season to accumulate points to have better seeding in the playoffs. That's how the league determines which teams are better. When was the last time the Kings finished better than the Ducks? Go ahead, it will take some time to research that. Advantage: Anaheim.

    Playoff success? The Kings have won one game in four seasons since last winning the Cup. Over that same time frame Anaheim has made the playoffs each year, been to two Conference Finals and won 23 more playoff games. Advantage: Ducks

    The Ducks have better young talent on the roster now and a far deeper reserve list without question. Doesn't take much, as the Kings are among the very worst in the league in this category. Advantage Ducks

    The Ducks have a better cap position, though they don't spend the same as the Kings, yet somehow always seem to finish better. The Kings can spend more, which should be an advantage, but based on that can anyone say they have actually do have an advantage given the lack of return on the contracts they have?

    The Ducks are better acclimated for the modern game, especially on defense and the wings which are increasingly becoming priorities in the NHL. The Kings best players had career best or career reviving years, where the Ducks best players didn't, especially Perry - and they still finished better.

    The rest is window dressing. You say "if the Kings had five more points" like that actually matters. "If" means nothing. It didn't happen. What did happen is that both teams were blown out, yet for some homertastic reason it appears you need to sooth yourself by falsely claiming that a rival, who is superior by every conceivable category that matters, might somehow be "lousier" than the Kings. It's ridiculous to make that argument.

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