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Thread: Doughty Not Considered Elite Defenseman Anymore

  1. #21
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    He doe have an elite contract, however.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helvetica View Post
    Honestly, and I think this is part of the reason why I wouldn't want him as captain... he seems like the sort of player to play up (or down) to the moment. From what i've seen of him the past two seasons, which is admittedly not nearly as much as seasons past, he's looked disinterested. He relies so much on his emotional connection to the game, that i'm not even surprised that he's been bad the past couple seasons. There's simply nothing to play for. On any given night he's looked either completely disinterested, or trying to do way too much.

    In some respects, i agree that he isn't elite. But i suspect he'd look like a completely different person on a team that was competing.
    I very much agree. I think he still has it in him to be at or near elite level. But over the last couple of years he has not demonstrated it except in very short stretches. I think if the team improves significantly, we'll see a lot better play from him in the future.

  3. #23
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    Yes he's still an elite defenseman but he's played like garbage the last two seasons. His fire is gone. I don't even think the money has much to do with it. He's had F-U money when he signed his first extension at age 21. The guy won two Cups and a Norris with that guaranteed money in the bank.

    What he needs is the someone to light a fire under his ass both behind the bench, on the bench and across the ice. Doughty has consistently played his best hockey on the biggest and brightest stage with the smallest margin of error. Right now he's playing on the worst team in the West in front of a half empty building. There's zero pressure on him and it shows on the ice.

    Until Doughty can rekindle his inner fire he's going to continue to look pretty average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
    I very much agree. I think he still has it in him to be at or near elite level. But over the last couple of years he has not demonstrated it except in very short stretches. I think if the team improves significantly, we'll see a lot better play from him in the future.
    I agree. I absolutely believe he'd play better on a better team with something to play for. Perhaps that's a better argument for calling him not elite, but in this case, im not super concerned about the stats that the article is looking at.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moog View Post
    He doe have an elite contract, however.
    Honestly though... does it matter? One guy isn't going to turn the team around. We could get McDavid tomorrow and we'd still not be competing for a cup. So, the only concern is money, and at least from where i'm standing, I don't really care about what Doughty makes right now. it isn't hurting the team either way. Now, if the team was competing, and we saw this level of play from him teh past two sesons, then i'd be upset about the contract. But right now, it's irrelevant.

  6. #26
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    Who cares.

  7. #27
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    Doughty is absolutely elite. Any GM in the NHL would take him as a 1st line defenseman in a millisecond.

    Doughty plays better and lifts his game the more the pressure or the bigger the game.

  8. #28
    Just... just listen.
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    I have a work colleague from Toronto. He was in town for a convention last year and, of course, hockey came up. We were talking for a bit and he was telling me how Doughty was overrated. So I asked him who he thought was the best defenseman was. He said Dustin Byfuglien.

    So I probed a bit more and he started talking about how Doughty had cost him so much in Fantasy last season, blah blah blah. Which is, of course, when I realized, "OHHHHHHH! He's not talking about ACTUAL playing. He's talking about his fantasy numbers bulls***!" So, of course, in that context, his argument made SOME sense. But as far as reality, he was talking nonsense!

    No surprise, then, that this article by who-the-f***-is-this-guy? is stats-based. What, so Roy and Ryan are better players now? Or is it more likely that Doughty plays close to 30 minutes, in all situations, against the best competition, so his stats may not look great against the metric he's using?




    The dude is elite. He eats minutes and covers a ton of ice (fat ass joke goes here).

    This team, on the other hand, is barely warm dog s***. So, yeah, his CORSI or whatever blows. As a guy who plays half the game, his +/- is down. And whatever other metric the stats guys are using, it's probably flawed in that it takes minute unrelated data and blows them out of proportion.

    And yes, he can be annoying. He is a drama queen and he does take risks that aren't always productive. But he does it because he's not afraid to legitimately try to change the flow of he game single handedly instead of being willing to "system" himself unproductively into a brick wall. The drama queen thing, well ya gotta live with that, but that's why I don't think he'd be a good Captain.

    In the past, he didn't have to push as hard because the team around him was better, so he could focus on his smaller area of responsibility. He didn't have to step up as obviously. Now, they are fewer difference makers, even fewer willing to try to do it, and way less cover if he tries and it goes bad.



    So, in short, y'all are nuts.


    "Only a numbskull thinks he knows things about things he knows nothing about."
    "It's understanding that makes it possible for people like us to tolerate a person like yourself."

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by darby View Post
    No surprise, then, that this article by who-the-f***-is-this-guy? is stats-based. What, so Roy and Ryan are better players now? Or is it more likely that Doughty plays close to 30 minutes, in all situations, against the best competition, so his stats may not look great against the metric he's using?
    I don't really disagree with your assessment, but the numbers the guy is using are adjusted for the sort of factors you're talking about. But I do sort of agree with OP to some extent. Doughty has not looked good, or played well, the past two seasons. We can say that's because he plays against the other team's best, but at the end of the day, that's what elite defensemen are supposed to do. They are supposed to eat up tough minutes, and make their team better. So saying that his stats look bad because he's playing tough minutes, sort of acknowledges that he's not playing great hockey. The bigger issue though is whether this is because Doughty is declining and no longer elite, or because he simply doesn't have anything to play for right now. I've already sided with most here that think he's still elite, but I also don't think he's played well the past two seasons, so I could see why people would be looking at stats and asking these questions.

    I mean, honestly... do you think he's been playing at an elite level the past two seasons, simply from watching him play?

  10. #30
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    We just do not have a worthy partner for DD at this time.

    DD always matches up against the top lines, and he needs a really good partner (Hutton
    tries hard, but is strictly a placeholder).

    IMO, Bjornfot needs 1 more season (or most of 1) at Ontario to develop his offensive and "quarterbacking" skills, and then he will be
    ready to make a fine 1st pair with DD.
    Last edited by triplcrown; June 1st, 2020 at 10:13 AM.

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