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Thread: Doughty Not Considered Elite Defenseman Anymore

  1. #31
    First Kings game 12/30/67
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    Quote Originally Posted by triplcrown View Post
    We just do not have a worthy partner for DD at this time.

    DD always matches up against the top lines, and he needs a really good partner...
    Sad excuse for his poor play.

  2. #32
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    I've read both articles and my take was these guys have only played hockey in their basements with rolled up socks and couldn't hit the furnace. The Corsi is going to be bad, especially the way the Kings played in Oct. and Nov. The scoring stats were decent considering that the Kings have about two consistent playmakers, which one of them is Doughty. The plus minus is the stat that you go oh, that's not good. But they don't break down the goals at the beginning of the season there either. Could Doughty play better, absolutely. He has made some poor decisions with the puck, but what did he have to lose on the third worse team in the league. Crap article by some stat nerds that ask the video guy from Toronto for evidence and he found one play. Not saying they couldn't find more evidence, but in the big picture that is probably small percentage of his ice time. Doughty at 90% is still considered 4th best in the league by his peers. Who do you believe, Nerds or NHL Elite Forwards?

  3. #33
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    Love Dewey. Not going to spend any energy bashing the guy.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAKingSteve View Post
    Love Dewey. Not going to spend any energy bashing the guy.
    Then you are on the wrong site, my friend.

  5. #35
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    Drew was just overshadowed by the brilliance of Hutton.



    OT, but I don't consider Bud Lite to be Lite anymore, either.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illegal_Stick View Post
    Then you are on the wrong site, my friend.
    Yeah, I know. Been here long enough to know that every player gets his turn as the whipping boy.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAKingSteve View Post
    Yeah, I know. Been here long enough to know that every player gets his turn as the whipping boy.
    And some even deserve it. Doughty is not paying like an 11M per season player. This scouting report, https://jhanhky.substack.com/p/is-dr...hty-still-good, is pretty darn accurate IMO. Doughty has the tools but he's a highly emotional player who'd probably be performing better if the team was winning more. Let's not confuse 2018-2020 Doughty with 2014-2016 Doughty any more than thinking 2020 Quick is as dominant as 2012 Quick. Players do lose their game. And many rediscover it too.

  8. #38
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    That article above is a scout's (Jack Han, former analyst with Leafs, former Assistant Coach with Marlies) shift-by-shift evaluation of Doughty in the Kings' last game this season. Confirms what anyone with a pair of eyes can see - he's not been playing well except in bursts; nowhere near "elite" level. It's as plain as the nose on your face. If you're still arguing that he's currently an elite NHL defender, you either have your purple glasses on, or simply don't understand how to evaluate a player's game, or both. He still has elite tools. But he's not using them on a consistent basis at all, which is what makes an elite player - tools AND effort. The conclusions of the article are very similar to what some of us have been saying in this thread - Doughty looks unmotivated and is not playing with the intensity necessary to be a top-notch defenseman in the NHL.

    Has elite tools and ability to take over a game, but seems to lack the motivation or inspiration to do hard things every shift in order to help his team control play.

    As for stats - remember Jack Johnson and his awful plus/minus? Plus/minus is something of a clumsy, blunt tool by itself, and can be useless in a vacuum. However, plus/minus can tell you important things when used in context. When Jack Johnson's plus/minus was consistently worse than any other player on the team, year after year, team after team, you had to know that it wasn't the stat that was the problem. The advanced stats are a much more refined version of that plus/minus stat and tell a very important story when used in context. Remember, it was the advanced stats guys who were yelling "Watch out for the Kings!!' in 2012.

    It's fine if you want to ignore advanced stats, and it's fine if you don't understand them. But say that you don't understand them and don't want to take the time to understand them; they are just another tool used to try and objectively evaluate important events which happen during a game. When you just dismiss these tools, you only make yourself look ignorant, because they are anything but useless when used properly and in context. The tools have gotten GOOD; not flawless, but quite good. As in, the stats are able to compare apples to apples. Stats compare different players playing with the same teammates, while playing against the same opponents, in the same situations, over a long period of time. They compare players with other players on their team by zone, by players they are facing on the other team, by defensive/line partners. When the stats show that when a player is on the ice with the same teammates and against the same opponents and his team gives up more shots, more goals, more time in their defensive zone, while scoring less and creating fewer offensive chances, and the team does better in ALL those categories when literally any other player is in that exact same position, and when this happens over, and over, and over again, it's not a ****ing coincidence. That's where the stats show Doughty to be right now and again, they only confirm what anyone can see. But you have to look.

  9. #39
    I don't rattle, kid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
    That article above is a scout's (Jack Han, former analyst with Leafs, former Assistant Coach with Marlies) shift-by-shift evaluation of Doughty in the Kings' last game this season. Confirms what anyone with a pair of eyes can see - he's not been playing well except in bursts; nowhere near "elite" level. It's as plain as the nose on your face. If you're still arguing that he's currently an elite NHL defender, you either have your purple glasses on, or simply don't understand how to evaluate a player's game, or both. He still has elite tools. But he's not using them on a consistent basis at all, which is what makes an elite player - tools AND effort. The conclusions of the article are very similar to what some of us have been saying in this thread - Doughty looks unmotivated and is not playing with the intensity necessary to be a top-notch defenseman in the NHL.




    As for stats - remember Jack Johnson and his awful plus/minus? Plus/minus is something of a clumsy, blunt tool by itself, and can be useless in a vacuum. However, plus/minus can tell you important things when used in context. When Jack Johnson's plus/minus was consistently worse than any other player on the team, year after year, team after team, you had to know that it wasn't the stat that was the problem. The advanced stats are a much more refined version of that plus/minus stat and tell a very important story when used in context. Remember, it was the advanced stats guys who were yelling "Watch out for the Kings!!' in 2012.

    It's fine if you want to ignore advanced stats, and it's fine if you don't understand them. But say that you don't understand them and don't want to take the time to understand them; they are just another tool used to try and objectively evaluate important events which happen during a game. When you just dismiss these tools, you only make yourself look ignorant, because they are anything but useless when used properly and in context. The tools have gotten GOOD; not flawless, but quite good. As in, the stats are able to compare apples to apples. Stats compare different players playing with the same teammates, while playing against the same opponents, in the same situations, over a long period of time. They compare players with other players on their team by zone, by players they are facing on the other team, by defensive/line partners. When the stats show that when a player is on the ice with the same teammates and against the same opponents and his team gives up more shots, more goals, more time in their defensive zone, while scoring less and creating fewer offensive chances, and the team does better in ALL those categories when literally any other player is in that exact same position, and when this happens over, and over, and over again, it's not a ****ing coincidence. That's where the stats show Doughty to be right now and again, they only confirm what anyone can see. But you have to look.
    It's interesting that the Kings seem to finally be taking advanced metrics seriously with the hiring of Rob Vollman and Hayden Speak.
    https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2018...y-analyst.html
    https://theathletic.com/1874836/2020...the-nhl-draft/

  10. #40
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    Every team needs a Doughty. There's no GM/team in the league that wouldn't want him on their team. He's a winner in every sense. He is the first player on the bench to celebrate when someone else on the team scores. All of you arm chair GM's... Name 3 other defensemen you'd choose over him.

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