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Thread: The Official MMA Thread

  1. #491


    this is insane

    anyone else think Shogun getting off HGH or whatever had a lot to do with it?

    Liddell/Jardine...I really don't know what to say. I still think Wanderlei and Liddell have to fight.

    Sign Fedor
    Last edited by Crapgame13; September 22nd, 2007 at 11:34 PM.

  2. #492


    The year of the upset continues I guess. I don't think many people were predicting both Jardine and Forrest to win. Hell not a lot of people picked either guy to win. Part of me wants to bet at least one underdog on the main card because chances are one upset will happen.

    This night just made the 205 picture that much more blurry. I'll throw out some scenarios and I'm anxious to see what everyone else thinks.

    Keith Jardine Vs. Chuck Liddell

    Keith Jardine

    First off, props to Greg Jackson for putting together a great game plan. At the beginning of the year until recently, Jackson's camp was suffering some tough losses, especially in the UFC. Lately though he has gotten back on track. Jardine fought a great fight against Chuck. Great use of leg kicks and kicks to the body. Also he wasn't afraid to throw overhand rights and left hooks.

    Great use of head movement as well. Everytime he traded with Chuck he would duck his head to get away from the big overhand Liddell has. I think the kicks were huge for Jardine though. They seemed to take a lot of sting out of Chuck's punches and definitely slowed Chuck down throughout the fight.

    So where does Jardine go from here? Honestly I have no idea. Does he deserve a title shot after beating Chuck? I'm not sure because even if Chuck won he would have faced Wanderlei. Maybe a rematch with Forrest for the the right to face Rampage in a title shot? I think I read that Rampage wouldn't fight till next year so that works out time wise.

    Chuck Liddell

    Maybe after two losses in a row, Chuck will come into the fight in better shape. He definitely had a gut in this fight and you have to wonder how much that affected him. All those body kicks that Jardine landed had to take it's toll.

    Chuck didn't seem to have an answer for Jardine's game plan. Other than a few wild strikes(a spinning back fist, spinning back kick, etc.) Chuck kept trying to do the same thing. Fire those overhand rights and looping left hooks. I think he hurt Jardine in the first but lost power as the fight went on. Marcos Rosales needs to be fired. I'm not sure how he gave 2 rounds to Chuck in that fight. You could argue that Chuck won the first round but no way he won 2 or 3. You could even argue that the second round was a 10-8 round for Jardine.

    If I'm Dana White, I'd still make that Chuck-Wanderlei fight. After all Wanderlei is coming off a loss too, a brutal one at that. I still think Chuck can tickets and if that's on the December card it wouldn't be the main event anyways. I think that's the way to go, it would make for an exciting fight and we've all been waiting to see it for like 2 years so it should happen. Other options for Chuck are a fight against Hendo(if he wants to stay at 205), maybe Lyoto Machida or Rashad if he beats Tito.

    Forrest Griffin Vs. Shogun Hua


    Never would have thought Forrest would dominate Shogun. I mentioned in my predictions that I thought Forrest would make a good showing but Shogun would sub him in the second, but man Forrest looked good. Good boxing and some good takedowns. He did a great job of staying out of submissions by scrambling and I think he could have finished Shogun a earlier if he were more aggressive.

    He took Shogun's back numerous times and other than a big time elbow landed by Shogun, he never really was in in trouble. Tremendous heart by Forrest to fight through all that blood and fight his gameplan. Clearly Randy has had some influenced Forrest's game.

    For Forrest, I think a rematch against Jardine makes the most sense. Let those 2 fight it out for Rampage. Might a bit unfair for Jardine, but it'll make for an interesting fight.


    Never thought I would ever see Shogun gas in a fight. It looked like he gassed in the middle of the second too. Shogun never brought the famed Chute box pace to the fight. He scored a few takedowns and landed a nice elbow but other than that he had nothing for Forrest. Especially on the ground where I thought he would catch Forrest in a submission.

    As for what's next I'm not sure. Maybe have him fight Nakamura who lost to Machida on this card. Or maybe a fight against the loser of Tito-Rashad? I wouldn't mind seeing a Tito-Shogun fight. 2 big names.

    Jon Fitch Vs. Diego Sanchez

    Fitch did pretty much what I thought he would do. For the most part kept the feet standing and when he wanted the takedown he got it. It was hard for him to really exchange with Diego because Diego wanted nothing to do with Fitch on the feet. I thought Fitch was in trouble when he was in that guillotine but for the most part he was never in any danger. I thought he was going to drop Diego on his head when Diego was on his back hanging precariously.

    What's next for Fitch? Well a dominating win over Diego certainly raises his stock. I would love to see him fight Karo in December. I don't think GSP will fight the rest of the year so Fitch and Karo should fight and the winner will get the next title shot after GSP.

    Diego Sanchez

    Diego didn't look good at all. He went from a guy who wanted to stand in his last two fights(Riggs, Kos) to a guy who wanted nothing to do with the stand up. Against the upper echelon fighters you can't be one dimensional. Even when he got the takedowns, Diego didn't even ground and pound like usual. He couldn't pass Fitch's guard and all he did was look for subs.

    In an story on yahoo sports, Diego talked about moving down to 155. Here is the quote, "I’m contemplating in my mind if I’m going to drop to (1)55 or not, because I’m a smaller welterweight."

    He could probably make 155 and he would be really strong at that lower weight. I think he could give some of the top guys at 55 problems because he would be pretty big but he would still be a one dimensional fighter. If he goes down, they'd probably give Diego an easier fight. Maybe a fight against a Jeremy Stephens who won his fight on the preliminary card. If he stays at 170, a rematch with Kos.

    I'll write up the other 2 main card fights later.
    Last edited by ASUcruz; September 23rd, 2007 at 11:25 AM.

  3. #493


    Well, what a great weekend for me. Gonna be a bit of a long post, so bear with me.

    Started off poorly. Went to the weigh-ins and autograph session that they were having. Got there about noon and there was a line that was probably about 1500 people deep waiting for autographs. Contemplated waiting, but decided against it when I saw that it was Koscheck, Stevenson, and Wanderlei there signing and that they'd only be there for about another hour and thirty. After being annoyed at that, I didn't even stay for the weigh-ins. It was another two hour wait, and I wasn't into it.

    The next day, went down to South Coast Plaza (in the rain) and waited for about two hours to get in and meet several of the fighters. Rampage, GSP, Randy Couture, Gray Maynard and Gina Carrano, and Big John were all there and very friendly. I was about 30th in line and had a grip of stuff for them to sign. I bought a shirt and, as we got closer, we were told they'd only sign those. No more "extra" stuff because there were too many people waiting and the line was going slow. Basically, poor planning by Nordstroms. Anyway, they were taking pictures and then, the Nordstrom people even cut THAT off. Said you could only take pictures OF the fighters, not with them. Well, everyone pretty much said screw you and the fighters still did it.

    Got a few minutes to talk to all of them. Randy was super cool. Looked you in the eyes when he was talking to you. I sorta froze a little to be honest. I asked him if he was gonna be at the fights. Told him good fight against Gonzaga. Blah blah.

    Next up was Gray and Gina. They're about the same size. Kind of funny. Gray seemed like a really nice "I'm just happy to be here" sorta guy. Was pretty excited that people knew who he was. I told him nice win the other night and he seemed like he wanted to talk about it. Told Gina congrats on her first sub and she lit up. Seriously started to giggle and talk about how excited she was about it. She's also totally hot.

    Next, got to Rampage's table. He was the most talkative of the bunch which I guess isn't a surprise. Told him I was happy someone finally beat Chuck and he gave me a sarcastic "why?". He was joking with everyone around and being nice and friendly.

    Got to Big John and, he's not as big as I thought he would be. My buddy said he's not Giant John, just Big John. . .so, I guess he's got a point. Anyway, really friendly guy. Didn't really have much to say to him but I wanted to ask him about the Bisping/Hammil fight. . .after I left of course.

    Then, the guy I was most anxious to talk to. GSP. Figured I'd get the question that we've been wondering out of the way so I asked him who his next fight was against. He said he's fighting the winner of Serra/Hughes. There you have it. Straight from his mouth. Then I asked him who he wanted and he said Serra. . .but he doesn't think he'll win. Said he's crossing his fingers. I told him he'd just have to beat up Hughes again and he smiled. I get the impression a lot of people don't like that guy. Took some pictures of all that and I'll post some of them a little later.

  4. #494


    Now. . .on to the fights.

    First of all, I had a great time there. Seats were perfect. If any one of you can grab some of the $100 seats down at the front of the top levels, get them. No need to spend four times as much when you'll be watching the monitors anyway.

    Jardine vs. Liddell: I didn't think he'd win, but I sure thought he stood a chance. That's pretty much where I stood. I said to my buddy beforehand that I'd be curious to see if Chuck was worried about coming out trying to prove something. If he was worried about taking a shot. Sometimes that can be the biggest obstacle a guy can have after being knocked out. I honestly believe that was the reason for the upset. Yes, Jardine fought a very smart fight. . .but Liddell just didn't fight like he used to. He was VERY tentative in there and wasn't throwing any combos. Jardine's leg kicks were destroying him about three minutes in and I think that did it for him. Part of me thinks the UFC guys have Chuck figured out too. He's become completely one dimensional and that just isn't going to work anymore. Guys are getting too good, too quick and backing up and waiting for one shot isn't a good strategy against guys that can kick and strike with their hands. Next? Hell, who knows. I agree with going for the Wand fight still, but I don't know that it'll be a big sell like it would have been. Jardine? Hell, this whole division is just tossed now isn't it? I guess another fight against Forrest could be next, but how do you sell that with Alexander sitting around? Call his win against Jardine a fluke and push him out? After last night I really have no idea what happens now. WAY too cloudy to make a real good guess.

    Griffin vs. Shogun: Man, I was speechless after this one. NEVER did I expect to see Forrest completely dominate this guy. NEVER did I expect him to choke him out. I agree with you ASU, Randy taught him a ton. . .and he really listened. He looked amazing in this fight. Is it time for all of us to stop just liking him because he puts his heart out there in a fight? Can we finally start saying he's the real deal and not manufactured? I think so. A lot of people I'm talking to think he might fight Wand in December if Chuck can't go (and judging from those leg kicks, I'm gonna say he won't be able to) or isn't in the picture right now. THAT might be interesting. A chute box redemption fight?

    Fitch vs. Sanchez: Pretty good fight in my opinion. Several fights on the card really put the 10 point must system to question. This was one of them. I'm not a fan of Diego at all, but I'll freely admit that he's got an argument for the win. I wouldn't have been shocked to see it go either way really. Fitch did his thing, but Diego did well off the ground too. I've always felt that a BJJ guy is behind on the cards from the start because of their comfort in working off their back. I don't think that's very fair, but I guess there isn't much you can do about that. It seems that a guys gets points for laying on top of another guy (positioning), but the guy on the bottom doesn't get any credit for defending on the bottom from a good GnP. Oh well. Anyway, I had Fitch winning, but it was close. Looks like Kos is fighting on the Dec card, so I'm guessing that Fitch will match up with him if everything goes right. Seems the logical choice. Winner of that gets a fight against Karo or his fight (rematch with Sanchez?) on the undercard of the Serra/Hughes vs. GSP fight and then the title? Sanchez might move to 155 and crowd an already crowded division, but I'd like to see him at 170 still. His problems will come against wrestlers, but he's still young and could learn to deal with that I think. GSP has so I don't know why Sanchez couldn't.

    Griffin vs. Tavares: Another one of those fights that questions the scoring system. For different reasons though. Do you give more credit to the guy trying to pull the submissions, or the guy that effectively prevents them? Depending on how you feel, you might have two different answers. Personally, I thought Tyson Griffin won the fight, but would have declared it a draw if I could have. Neither guy deserved to lose that fight really. No way anyone watching that fight could say conclusively that one of them "lost". Fantastic fight to watch for sure and I'm anxious to see them both fight again. What happens to these guys? No clue. 155 is another division that is just loaded and anyone could beat anyone. Florian vs. Griffin? Tavares vs. Stevenson? Tavares vs. Florian? Huerta vs. Tavares? So many great matchups there.

    A couple of other notes on the night:

    Jeremy Stephens looks like another young up and comer in that 155 division. I don't know if you guys saw the fight, but he looked good again. Got locked in a triangle and slammed the guy. He didn't let go so he picked him back up again and dropped him one more time. He's going to be good in a couple of years.

    The Machida fight reminded me of PRIDE to be honest. Not sure why, but it had that feel. It was an enjoyable fight, but pretty much what I figured it would be. A little bit of some back and forth, but Machida started to have his way really.

    A thread on Sherdog brought up a funny point. Ironic that this even was called Knockout when most of the fights went to a decision.

    The crowd was schizo for sure. The main even fight was the prime example of that. Liddell comes out to the loudest cheers of the night. Jardine is booed. The fight is over, Chuck raises his hands, the crowd boos. They show Jardine on the screen and they go crazy. It was like that all night. Go figure.

    Anyway, great card in my opinion. LOTS of activity in those fights last night. I'd like to see them do something about the refs not standing fights up or getting them off the walls and any other sort of stall, but I guess that will happen as things evolve.

  5. #495


    Quote Originally Posted by SmytheKing View Post
    Anyway, I had Fitch winning, but it was close. Looks like Kos is fighting on the Dec card, so I'm guessing that Fitch will match up with him if everything goes right.
    Good post Smyth, I want to respond to it in detail later on, but just wanted to comment on this really fast.

    Fitch and Koscheck WON'T fight each other. Both guys fight at the same camp and both have said that they wouldn't fight each other because they're on the same team.

  6. #496


    Quote Originally Posted by ASUcruz View Post
    Damn I wish I was in Socal this weekend.
    Quote Originally Posted by ASUcruz View Post
    Good post Smyth, I want to respond to it in detail later on, but just wanted to comment on this really fast.

    Fitch and Koscheck WON'T fight each other. Both guys fight at the same camp and both have said that they wouldn't fight each other because they're on the same team.
    Damn. I keep forgetting about that. Well, Kos might get hmmm. . .I really don't know. The top 3 guys are not gonna happen. Sanchez isn't getting a rematch against him yet. Fitch won't fight him. Who else? Swick maybe since he's dropping? That could be an interesting fight I guess. Hell of a first fight for Swick at that weight though.

  7. #497


    Real interesting article on Yahoo as well. Here's a snippet:

    Quinton "Rampage" Jackson, who knocked Liddell out in the first round of a May 26 bout in Las Vegas to lift the light heavyweight title from him, speculated that Liddell may have been gun-shy.

    But White, Liddell's former manager and a close personal friend, speculated that Liddell may simply no longer have the passion to fight. White said he didn't see the fire that Liddell used to exhibit and that it resulted in a flat performance. At the post-fight news conference, Liddell deferred questions about his future. He said he would go home and think about whether he would fight again, which in and of itself was newsworthy since he'd never had given an indication before that he was remotely considering that option.;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

    Could Chuck retire? I'll say this much. . .after Jardine won, he was slumped down against the cage and it looked like he was waving people off. Just wanted to be alone or something. I didn't see it on the camera's, so I'm not sure if it was on the PPV or not. Guy just looked done with it all. I guess this will be speculation for a while until we hear something, but the thought did pop into my mind at the end there. Ever so briefly, but it was there.
    Last edited by SmytheKing; September 23rd, 2007 at 11:43 PM.

  8. #498


    Quote Originally Posted by SmytheKing View Post
    Damn. I keep forgetting about that. Well, Kos might get hmmm. . .I really don't know. The top 3 guys are not gonna happen. Sanchez isn't getting a rematch against him yet. Fitch won't fight him. Who else? Swick maybe since he's dropping? That could be an interesting fight I guess. Hell of a first fight for Swick at that weight though.
    Haha, Swick is in the same position as Fitch. Another AKA guy. Those guys won't fight each other which is a shame since any combination of those 3 guys fighting each other makes for an interesting fight.

    I think Kos and Diego should fight. The first fight was so dull, I think they have to make that fight again. Plus Diego has some "excuses" like the Staph which he was hampered with during training.

    Other than Diego nothing comes to mind for me either. Maybe whoever loses in the Serra-Hughes fight?

  9. #499


    Here are some of the pictures that I took. Both from the signing and the actual event.

  10. #500


    First off cool pics Smyth. Good card to go to and it looked like you had some solid seats.

    Here's some important news.

    Despite what former UFC light heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell told UFC President Dana White after his loss to Keith Jardine at UFC 76, Liddell’s trainer, John Hackleman, says his fighter will not be retiring anytime soon.

    Hackleman made the comments during a radio interview with Steve “Mr. Sunshine,” who does a radio show in Las Vegas on FoxSportsRadio1460. The audio of the 15-minute interview is available at

    That's good news, don't want to see Chuck leave the Octagon after 2 losses.



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