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Thread: When Is It Time To Call Out Rob Blake?

  1. #21
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    Blake needs to draft good peospects that don't need three or more years in the AHL. One year, two at the most and then they need to be able to contribute at the NHL level. anything longer is a bust. o legit team waits three or more years to develop a player in the minors.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiecat View Post
    OK, let's compare our drafting and games played to our near peer teams in the bottom of the standings the past few years.

    Here's a team down the I-5.

    Year Rd. Overall Player Pos Amateur Team Lg Draft GP G A PTS +/- PIM GP W L T/O SV% GAA
    2021 1 3 Mason Mctavish C Peterborough Petes (OHL) NHL Entry 9 2 1 3 3 2
    2020 1 6 Jamie Drysdale D Erie Otters (OHL) NHL Entry 49 6 15 21 -17 12
    2019 1 9 Trevor Zegras C USA U-18 (U.S. NTDP) NHL Entry 47 9 23 32 -2 36
    2018 1 23 Isac Lundestrom C Lulea (Sweden) NHL Entry 96 12 17 29 -4 16
    2018 2 54 Benoit-Olivier Groulx C Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL) NHL Entry 16 1 2 3 1 2

    Here's the Kings:
    Year Rd. Overall Player Pos Amateur Team Lg Draft GP G A PTS +/- PIM GP W L T/O SV% GAA
    2020 1 2 Quinton Byfield C Sudbury Wolves (OHL) NHL Entry 6 0 1 1 1 2
    2019 1 22 Tobias Bjornfot D Djurgardens Jr. (Sweden-Jr.) NHL Entry 59 1 8 9 -6 16
    2019 2 33 Arthur Kaliyev RW Hamilton Bulldogs (OHL) NHL Entry 23 5 3 8 -6 4
    2018 1 20 Rasmus Kupari C Karpat (Finland) NHL Entry 28 4 2 6 -6 14

    Here's another peer team in Detroit:
    Year Rd. Overall Player Pos Amateur Team Lg Draft GP G A PTS +/- PIM GP W L T/O SV% GAA
    2020 1 4 Lucas Raymond LW Frolunda (Sweden) NHL Entry 25 10 12 22 3 4
    2019 1 6 Moritz Seider D Mannheim (GERMANY) NHL Entry 25 3 14 17 3 16
    2018 1 6 Filip Zadina RW Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL) NHL Entry 111 19 27 46 -23 6
    2018 1 30 Joseph Veleno C Drummondville Voltigeurs (QMJHL) NHL Entry 15 3 1 4 0 8

    Which team has the lowest games played? Kings

    Which team has Calder candidates on the roster? Detroit has Raymond and Seider. Anaheim has Zegras and longshot Drysdale. Kings have none.

    Regarding the prospects and top-6 or top-4, prospects are just big shiny lottery tickets. You know what beats lottery ticket prospects? Guys in the NHL actually performing at a top-6 level rather than projecting to be top-6. Ducks and Red Wings are doing that while the Kings are still waiting. Hopefully Byfield comes back and dominates. We need it and Blake needs it.

    Regarding trades, Danault is not fixing what ails the Kings. I'm not denying he is very good at the shutdown role but the fancy stats say he's 11th on the entire Kings team in point shares. We're going to regret the contract. Kaliyev is quite dissimilar to Arviddson. Arvidsson is like a semi-skilled Wagner. He's fast, he forechecks well, and he generates a bunch of chances. And he can finish some. Kaliyev is below average skating wise, he is not a strong forechecker, but he has an amazing shot. The usage that the mayor cited in a tweet is exactly the game plan for Kaliyev. He's on the Andrew Brunette model (as a player not a coach)-- hold your own at 5 on 5 and be amazing on the PP.

    What's the harm in pointing out that our draft picks have not made it at the NHL level yet. Shoot the messenger and tell me I'm wrong all you want but the facts are that as 12/6/2021, nobody that Blake has drafted is a top line forward or top line defenseman. And except for maybe Byfield (and you have to really squint), none have shown that at the NHL level. Meanwhile our near peers are getting back to back rookie of the month (Seider, Raymond).
    Like I said, the Kings have been very conservative and have sat prospects in the lower league until they are ready. Anaheim, on the other hand, utilized them right away to fill holes. Detroit is somewhere in the between and really hit it big on Seider (who the Kings wanted to draft but fell a few picks behind) and Raymond who so far is the best of the bunch. The fact the Kings prospects have less NHL games does not mean they are misses or less of a success. Currently I'll agree with you they are behind and the other two teams (which, to be fair, you cherry picked as they are the best so far of the NHL in the years mentioned) but I will still put my money on the Kings prospects outshining that of the Ducks or Wings in the years mentioned when it comes to overall career.

    It's honestly pretty crazy how quickly some of these players are rushed to the NHL, especially on defense, they days. Does it leave them in a better position or will they fade out due to building bad habits at the onset in order to survive? Only time will tell.

    In regards to Arvidsson, I was talking about role not skillset. Both he and Kaliyev's role is to score - which you mention in your post. But, if you feel that Arvidsson's replacement in the future is not Kaliyev which prospect is it that he is taking away time from and relegating to the minors (who should be in the NHL)? Also who is Danault taking away time from who is NHL ready and will one day fill his defensive center role? I'm not really debating the contract amount as I feel Blake consistently signs players for too high of a price but I don't think Danualt's contract will be a big hindrance (especially with the direction inflation is headed).

    Also I don't think your opinion is wrong, I just feel the opposite when it comes to development. Both of us are as much right in that sense as we are wrong, as there is not a clear path to prospect development.
    Last edited by DryKing; December 6th, 2021 at 11:34 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogie-Vachon View Post
    Your .02 sucks (IMO) - Been a fan for over 40 years - have watched team draft good players and patiently watch them develop into dynasties (Islanders, Hawks) for example. Dean started out right, then loyalty blinded him (Richards, Gaborik) - Sutter's message got lost on players.

    Pat Riley's got lost on Lakers too.

    That being said - Part of the "core" is holding the team down. Number one culprit is #23 . Next year, he's gone. Quicky has blown up this season (fooling MANY "experts" here on this site) & Cal is fine.

    Let's stop the FIRE BLAKE because he let Clague go. If he was SOOOOO good, why didn't SEATTLE take him? Why did he pass waivers earlier?

    Being an ANGELS fan & watching how they BUILT a World Series team with draft picks & smart acquisitions and NOW watching a dog crap owner try to buy banners while wasting really good players makes me sick.

    THE KINGS WILL BE FINE - 2022-23 was my target season. LOOK HOW THE REIGN ARE PLAYING. That's us in the coming years.

    That's my .02
    Oooor you can say "i respectfully disagree" instead of telling someone their .02 sucks lmao. Imagine being that much of an arrogant and pretentious A-hole lol.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiecat View Post
    OK, let's compare our drafting and games played to our near peer teams in the bottom of the standings the past few years.

    Here's a team down the I-5.

    Year Rd. Overall Player Pos Amateur Team Lg Draft GP G A PTS +/- PIM GP W L T/O SV% GAA
    2021 1 3 Mason Mctavish C Peterborough Petes (OHL) NHL Entry 9 2 1 3 3 2
    2020 1 6 Jamie Drysdale D Erie Otters (OHL) NHL Entry 49 6 15 21 -17 12
    2019 1 9 Trevor Zegras C USA U-18 (U.S. NTDP) NHL Entry 47 9 23 32 -2 36
    2018 1 23 Isac Lundestrom C Lulea (Sweden) NHL Entry 96 12 17 29 -4 16
    2018 2 54 Benoit-Olivier Groulx C Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL) NHL Entry 16 1 2 3 1 2

    Here's the Kings:
    Year Rd. Overall Player Pos Amateur Team Lg Draft GP G A PTS +/- PIM GP W L T/O SV% GAA
    2020 1 2 Quinton Byfield C Sudbury Wolves (OHL) NHL Entry 6 0 1 1 1 2
    2019 1 22 Tobias Bjornfot D Djurgardens Jr. (Sweden-Jr.) NHL Entry 59 1 8 9 -6 16
    2019 2 33 Arthur Kaliyev RW Hamilton Bulldogs (OHL) NHL Entry 23 5 3 8 -6 4
    2018 1 20 Rasmus Kupari C Karpat (Finland) NHL Entry 28 4 2 6 -6 14

    Here's another peer team in Detroit:
    Year Rd. Overall Player Pos Amateur Team Lg Draft GP G A PTS +/- PIM GP W L T/O SV% GAA
    2020 1 4 Lucas Raymond LW Frolunda (Sweden) NHL Entry 25 10 12 22 3 4
    2019 1 6 Moritz Seider D Mannheim (GERMANY) NHL Entry 25 3 14 17 3 16
    2018 1 6 Filip Zadina RW Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL) NHL Entry 111 19 27 46 -23 6
    2018 1 30 Joseph Veleno C Drummondville Voltigeurs (QMJHL) NHL Entry 15 3 1 4 0 8

    Which team has the lowest games played? Kings

    Which team has Calder candidates on the roster? Detroit has Raymond and Seider. Anaheim has Zegras and longshot Drysdale. Kings have none.

    Regarding the prospects and top-6 or top-4, prospects are just big shiny lottery tickets. You know what beats lottery ticket prospects? Guys in the NHL actually performing at a top-6 level rather than projecting to be top-6. Ducks and Red Wings are doing that while the Kings are still waiting. Hopefully Byfield comes back and dominates. We need it and Blake needs it.

    Regarding trades, Danault is not fixing what ails the Kings. I'm not denying he is very good at the shutdown role but the fancy stats say he's 11th on the entire Kings team in point shares. We're going to regret the contract. Kaliyev is quite dissimilar to Arviddson. Arvidsson is like a semi-skilled Wagner. He's fast, he forechecks well, and he generates a bunch of chances. And he can finish some. Kaliyev is below average skating wise, he is not a strong forechecker, but he has an amazing shot. The usage that the mayor cited in a tweet is exactly the game plan for Kaliyev. He's on the Andrew Brunette model (as a player not a coach)-- hold your own at 5 on 5 and be amazing on the PP.

    What's the harm in pointing out that our draft picks have not made it at the NHL level yet. Shoot the messenger and tell me I'm wrong all you want but the facts are that as 12/6/2021, nobody that Blake has drafted is a top line forward or top line defenseman. And except for maybe Byfield (and you have to really squint), none have shown that at the NHL level. Meanwhile our near peers are getting back to back rookie of the month (Seider, Raymond).
    There's a few things with your comparison that it's important to point out, and probably make the Kings look even worse, but add context:

    1) The overall's that are hitting for both Detroit and Anaheim, they both have 3 in the top 10 of their respective drafts. That's important. It's also important to note that the Kings options at those points would include Turcotte and potentially Vilardi (2017) who are currently lacking. Remember the 2018 year there was no top 10 pick due to the flirtation with the black hole.
    2) Other peers in that group would include Buffalo and Phoenix, talk about some bad drafting/devlopment. Between the two only Dahlin at 1 overall has been close to a upper level player. The book on Cozens is still very much out. Comparatively the Kings are doing better for sure.
    3) One note on Zegras, he's the third rookie in the last 15 years to record 3 consecutive multiple assist games. The other two rookies were Panarin and Patick Kane...

    Overall I agree with the sentiment that the Kings abhor a production darling. that's fine if you believe it's the details that make you win, but concentrating on those details without winning means somethings broken. I'd much rather be taming proven talent against NHL peers to that effect than taming unproven projections.

  5. #25
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    I might be going out on a limb, however I sense some frustration.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammer06 View Post
    3) One note on Zegras, he's the third rookie in the last 15 years to record 3 consecutive multiple assist games. The other two rookies were Panarin and Patick Kane...
    https://twitter.com/NHL/status/1468265301007609859?s=20
    "We couldn't check a hat" "Final: Sabres 5, Kings 1. Another atrocity committed against the game of hockey. @helenenothelen"

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    Forgot Barzal in that. That was the tweet I was thinking of though. Thanks for the source on it.

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    he's on fire
    "We couldn't check a hat" "Final: Sabres 5, Kings 1. Another atrocity committed against the game of hockey. @helenenothelen"

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogie-Vachon View Post
    If he was SOOOOO good, why didn't SEATTLE take him? Why did he pass waivers earlier?
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeadInjury View Post
    Our high draft picks are progressing fine as a whole. Some are doing better than others, but that's evitable, and not every high pick is going to work out.

    Tim Stützle made it to the NHL right away. He's on pace for a dozen goals this year and to be a -40. Kaapo Kakko made to the NHL right away and is also on pace for about a dozen goals in what is now his third year. Kirby Dach finds himself in a similar situation in his third year. I'm not sure any of these guys benefitted from being placed in the NHL at 18.
    And this.

    To all Blake bashers:

    People always look at success stories when it comes to drafting and point fingers...but the bottom line is - how many picks that Rob made were head scratchers with - AT THE TIME - obvious players left on the table who are now very successful already? I've kinda rooted for him to pick Stützle over Byfield. I thought QB was a "safe pick" while Stützle a "snazzy" pick with much needed offensive creativity. Well, as it turns out, Stützle is struggling a lot and whoever can guarantee that he will find his game at this level? No one. He could never find it and become the next Patrik Stefan.

    At the end of the day, it takes *at least* 3-4 years for a certain player to be properly developed (or not) and judged. And Rob has been GM since...2017. Clague is the first one of the higher end picks to not make it and people are already getting their panties in a bunch.

    Look: the Kings have at least a top 5 prospect pool, if not the best prospect pool in the entire NHL. According to most relevant sources. Reign are demolishing the AHL. Our prospects are generally doing really well in juniors (or wherever). Considering what he started with (and that keeping the core together was most likely a requirement "from above" due to marketing reasons) it's a miraculous transformation that should not be taken for granted at all.


    Now, taking that next step into contendership is a question mark, a different animal...and no one can know for sure what will happen. But the Kings ARE, in fact, playing .500 hockey WITH that ugly losing streak with a brutal start of the season schedule and some nasty injuries. Kids are (for the most part) playing well and there are some definitive positive surprises. The team is clearly holding its own (only what, 3 or 4 significant losses, with the rest being close games score-wise) and is on an upward trend. People expecting miracles are basically asking for a GM that would trade the future for immediate help, thus rushing the rebuild and most likely forming a team that would contend for a few seasons and then...hello, mediocrity.


    Another thing: give me your opinion who should've been hired (a realistic hire, mind you) instead of Blake, who should've been hired now if he's fired for whatever reason, and who should've been hired instead of TM as a coach now under the new regime. Give me realistic names and back it up with a decent arguments.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian20 View Post
    Oooor you can say "i respectfully disagree" instead of telling someone their .02 sucks lmao. Imagine being that much of an arrogant and pretentious A-hole lol.
    (IMO) .....means "In My Opinion" aka "I respectfully disagree"
    LOVE,
    A Pretentions A-hole

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