Free agency/off season

[DryKing]

Offsense:
I read in one of the threads that QB was injured twice this season with nagging injuries that allowed him to play, but affected him in a negative way. He was quite a productive player in his last 20-odd games and showed much improved faceoff %. I think he earned the 1C position opportunity and it's not like a player like Elias (who is IMO the only realistic legitimate #1C trade option from the viewpoint of asset cost) would magically make this team that much better, so I'm officially off the Elias bandwagon. Still, it would be wise for Ken to ask about the asking price for Matthews, Nylander, Thomas and Hischier.

Resign Laughton. If Laughton doesn't want to resign look at Coyle, Roslovic, Dickinson, maybe Haula or Blueger for the 3C spot.

Look into trading for a legitimate 2C if none of the #1C targets are reachable (most likely scenario) - Zacha, Strome, Eriksson Ek, Beniers etc. If there's no success for a reasonable price hope Laughton or one of the above mentioned UFA centers rise to the occasion and make due with what you have. If there's a flat out failure to acquire #2 and #3 C just go with Turcotte and Connors at #3 and Laf at #2 and hope for the best.

Resign Kuzmenko, should be a cheap, short term deal.

Try to sign a middle 6 veteran winger that could make losing a player like Moore or Laferriere along with Armia easier to swallow. Arvidsson, McMann, Schwartz, Mantha, Mikheyev, Tolvanen, Bjorkstrand, Andersson, Tarasenko, Laine are some of the (AFAIK) still UFA-to-be wingers...

Defense:
It seems the Kings will be stuck with the DD-Clarke punch at RD for at least one more season. Find a top 4 LD in a trade as there's no one worth a damn in UFA market.

Goal:
Trade either Forsberg of Kuemper. Whoever nets a better return goes. Perhaps keeping Kuemper would be the more sensible approach as he got hosed this season by that injury and he's been a real trooper.

So, all in all before training camp:
Out: Laferriere or Moore, one of the goalie prospects (Carter George almost certainly seems to be the odd man out with Slukynsky signed), #1 draft pick (which should have very decent value to a GM looking to gamble on the Kings failing to make the playoffs next season), Armia, one of the Kings' current goalies, Dumo or Joel (both should have some trade value if some salary is retained), a couple of #2/#3 picks (which should be provided by trading away some of the pieces mentioned).
In: Laughton/UFA #3C, #2C trade (but not at all costs), top 4 LD trade (a must), middle 6 winger UFA

Ideally that makes the roster before camp:

Panarin - QB - Kempe
Fiala - 2C (trade) - Laferriere/UFA
Kuzmenko - Laughton/UFA - Moore/UFA
Lee, Turcotte, Helenius, Connors, Ward, Wright, Chromiak - have them battle it out at the camp.

Mikey - Clarke
LD (trade) - DD
Dumo/Joel - Ceci
Moverare

Forsberg/Kuemper - Portillo

Maybe Ken could eventually offload two of Dumo/Joel/Ceci (instead of just one) if either Booth, Woolley or Bruz coming out of the training camp door knocking hard and there's a team in need for a veteran D-man down the stretch. The salary retained would be easy to swallow given that they would be replaced with rookie contracts.


This is one scenario that I think is realistic and where - if Ken plays his cards right - this team can improve a bit (not without risk of regression, of course) without being gutted of future assets.

Personally I have Laf on the no-trade list - what is your rationale for moving him?

I agree with you, it's likely better to trade Forsberg over Kuemper based on current value. Kuemper really is the better of the two goalies, but either one staying/moving would be a good thing.

No way would I move either of goalie prospects or the 1st round pick this year - building the pipeline needs to remain high priority instead of further dismantling it.

The others make sense to move if the return is right or, in some cases, the cost of moving isn't too high. I will call out that Edmundson is on a really good contract and definitely should have value. He also was arguably our 3rd best defenseman this year so preference would be to keep him and instead retain salary to move Ceci.

 

[Dexter]

Moore should go before you trade Laffy. We would continue the trend of trading our 1B goaltender for the sake of getting a return. We seem to do well with backups so it's not a necessity, even though he outperformed Kuemper, who never regained his confidence after getting hit.

 

[Bollocks]

Personally I have Laf on the no-trade list - what is your rationale for moving him?

I agree with you, it's likely better to trade Forsberg over Kuemper based on current value. Kuemper really is the better of the two goalies, but either one staying/moving would be a good thing.

No way would I move either of goalie prospects or the 1st round pick this year - building the pipeline needs to remain high priority instead of further dismantling it.

The others make sense to move if the return is right or, in some cases, the cost of moving isn't too high. I will call out that Edmundson is on a really good contract and definitely should have value. He also was arguably our 3rd best defenseman this year so preference would be to keep him and instead retain salary to move Ceci.

My rationale is that if we get a #1 C (or maybe one that's borderline 1/2 C) or a legitimate top 4 D on a good contract with good term it would be worth it.

There's some decent vet wingers on the UFA market, there's Moore that can do the job on the 2nd line (albeit not consistently at a high level), there's still some potential in Chromiak and Lee etc. But I would only do it for a player like Matthews or Nylander, maybe Hischier if he agrees on a contract extension.

Keeping all of the goalie prospects seems foolish at this point IMO. There are 4 (!) young goalies in the system with ample talent and on good developmental trajectories, and Carter George has the highest value behind Slukynsky.

We won't get a top 6 center or a top 4 LD with term for a bunch of spare parts...saying Laf, our goalie prospects and our 1st rounder are all untouchable gives us near zero chance of actually improving this team. And I'm basing my opinion on the (IMO accurate) hypothesis that Ken WILL spend to improve this team and won't stand pat and give the opportunities to the AHL guys to move up the ranks...therefore some valuable assets will need to be spent.

If there's a world where Ken can somehow turn (let's say) Fiala, Moore, Turcotte/Connors, Joel/Dumo, multiple 2nd round picks and Rimpinen/Portillo into a top 6 center and a top 4 LD I'm all for it, but I don't think that's realistic.

 

[DryKing]

My rationale is that if we get a #1 C (or maybe one that's borderline 1/2 C) or a legitimate top 4 D on a good contract with good term it would be worth it.

There's some decent vet wingers on the UFA market, there's Moore that can do the job on the 2nd line (albeit not consistently at a high level), there's still some potential in Chromiak and Lee etc. But I would only do it for a player like Matthews or Nylander, maybe Hischier if he agrees on a contract extension.

Keeping all of the goalie prospects seems foolish at this point IMO. There are 4 (!) young goalies in the system with ample talent and on good developmental trajectories, and Carter George has the highest value behind Slukynsky.

We won't get a top 6 center or a top 4 LD with term for a bunch of spare parts...saying Laf, our goalie prospects and our 1st rounder are all untouchable gives us near zero chance of actually improving this team. And I'm basing my opinion on the (IMO accurate) hypothesis that Ken WILL spend to improve this team and won't stand pat and give the opportunities to the AHL guys to move up the ranks...therefore some valuable assets will need to be spent.

If there's a world where Ken can somehow turn (let's say) Fiala, Moore, Turcotte/Connors, Joel/Dumo, multiple 2nd round picks and Rimpinen/Portillo into a top 6 center and a top 4 LD I'm all for it, but I don't think that's realistic.

Thanks for explaining the rationale, I appreciate it.

If the trade was part of obtaining a Matthew/Nylander/Hischier then I agree someone like Laf, 1st round picks and additional assets, would likely have to go in the process (and it would be worth it).

The struggle I have with the goalie prospects is outside of George and Slykynsky I don't see the other truly having a high ceiling. If the goal is to eliminate a roadblock, I would trade the others before those two (rationale being goalie prospects almost never trade for equal value skaters based on the high development risk).

I would just hate to see Holland trade away high level prospects / picks for short term, or lesser value, band-aides.

 

[The Nuts]

I know it's early but let's talk free agent targets. First let's lock up Laughton. Let Kuzmenko go? Trade Kuemper? Edmundson? Get a centre maybe Elias ? Feel free to share your thoughts

1. Best C you can get
2. Laughton - pass on higher pay unless you cant sign a C -Coyle
3. Kuzmenko - bye
4. Kuemper trade for a 2/3 c
5. Edmu keep, Ceci trade
6. Elias hell no

I know it's early but let's talk free agent targets. First let's lock up Laughton. Let Kuzmenko go? Trade Kuemper? Edmundson? Get a centre maybe Elias ? Feel free to share your thoughts

 

[The Nuts]

I just hope KH doesn't try to blow smoke up the fans rear end tomorrow. The reporters need to ask him:

+ Why did our Alternate team captain decide to leave in the middle of the season?
+ Our best third line player from last season coming off a career year all of a sudden went in the crapper?
+ Why was Hiller brought back in the first place? (most irritating one for me personally)
+ Why is Lucy still here? (although that technically is not incumbent upon him to answer)
+ Why isn't a rebuild the better option at this point?

Should be an interesting end of season press conference. I am sure reporters will also ask him about DJ. I don't think necessarily we need a decision on that yet.

Danault left Montreal when the window was closing . Now he demanded a trade and left with the Kings window closing and Habs flipped open.
Luc is still here because he was give n the opportunity to hire Ken for 3.
Hiller was brought back because no coach was ever fired after 105 points.
Fuller rebuilds destroy franchise value and revenue and no guarantees and it can take a decade. Economics.

 

[The Nuts]

Curious what the brain trust on this board thinks about the young players the Kings have, and whether any of them can fill some roster slots.
We saw Helenius, Mallot, Ward and Wright play. We also saw a bit of Lee over the past two years, and a short glimpse of Connors.

Do any of these guys play a bottom six role moving forward? Are any of them temporary seat fillers?

Personally I liked Wright. I think he can play in the NHL.
I thought Helenius was fine. Not terribly impressed nor do I see a ton of upside.
Ward and Mallot were ok-ish.
Connors just didn’t get enough time so I don’t know.
Lee has been up a few times. The most recent call up had me intrigued.

While none of them could replace Kuzy or Laughton skill/experience, they would certainly be less costly.

Just interested in what others have seen.

Here is what I see with players nder contract, so no UFA's and before Holland tries to improve team.

F

Pan - Byf - Kempe

Fiala - Laf - Moore

Armia - Turc - Wright

Lee - Heli - Ward

Connors - Guttman

D

MA - DD

Edmu - Clarke

Dumo - Ceci

Booth

G

Forsy - Portillo (Kuemper traded for 2C, Laf back to wing)

2026 Center Free Agents

 

[The Nuts]

Laughton is worth 5M a season to the Kings, which is more important than what the average 3rd line center makes.

Get Kuemper off the books as well as one of Dumo/Ceci and don’t think twice.

No way Laughton at 5 mil.
You gotta go after a 2c first with all you got.
If that fails you try for a cheaper or better 3c .
If that fails circle back to Laughton

 

[The Nuts]

Moore should go before you trade Laffy. We would continue the trend of trading our 1B goaltender for the sake of getting a return. We seem to do well with backups so it's not a necessity, even though he outperformed Kuemper, who never regained his confidence after getting hit.

Kuemper is th one you trade to give Portillo a shot at back up.
Forsy you keep because he is younger and earned it down the stretch.

 

[hokiecat]

The Kings suck. The trades will just move us from a non-contending marginal playoff team to a longshot who most likely loses in the first round but maybe makes the second round. It is absolutely dumbfounding that we had so much talent at RD and now we're down to DD and a pissed-off Clarke who only extends long-term if the Kings give him more responsibility. Durzi, Roy, Walker, and Spence all traded for pennies on the dollar. A franchise doesn't dig out of that hole in an offseason.

Minnesota has scored as much as we did all series in just over half a game. This team is so devoid of top-end talent. They just need to patch it together to keep making AEG money.

 

[DarkLeftHand]

Minnesota has scored as much as we did all series in just over half a game. This team is so devoid of top-end talent. They just need to patch it together to keep making AEG money.

To be fair, it also took the Kings three games to concede eight goals. Minnesota has given up 9 in a little under 58 minutes.

 

[Bollocks]

Thanks for explaining the rationale, I appreciate it.

If the trade was part of obtaining a Matthew/Nylander/Hischier then I agree someone like Laf, 1st round picks and additional assets, would likely have to go in the process (and it would be worth it).

The struggle I have with the goalie prospects is outside of George and Slykynsky I don't see the other truly having a high ceiling. If the goal is to eliminate a roadblock, I would trade the others before those two (rationale being goalie prospects almost never trade for equal value skaters based on the high development risk).

I would just hate to see Holland trade away high level prospects / picks for short term, or lesser value, band-aides.

Top 10 goalies in this year's playoffs - none of them was picked higher than 3rd round. Two 6th round picks, one 7th (our very own Forsberg) and one undrafted.

Now, a team desperate for a good goalie prospect will be willing to pay decent price for a very talented and highly touted goalie like Carter George...not just because of higher chances he makes it, but also because it's a good sell to the fans.

Trading Rimpinen or Portillo would net the Kings an equivalent of a 3rd, maybe even 4th rounder at this point at best. It's pointless. Yet they both have, by all accounts, very good chances of becoming NHL starting caliber goalies, especially with the Kings' historically stellar goalie development record.

The Kings have only one position with surplus assets (and the only ones they know how to develop well) and IMO they need to cash in on that instead of trading away, for example, one of the only two D prospects worth a damn...

The Kings suck. The trades will just move us from a non-contending marginal playoff team to a longshot who most likely loses in the first round but maybe makes the second round. It is absolutely dumbfounding that we had so much talent at RD and now we're down to DD and a pissed-off Clarke who only extends long-term if the Kings give him more responsibility. Durzi, Roy, Walker, and Spence all traded for pennies on the dollar. A franchise doesn't dig out of that hole in an offseason.

Minnesota has scored as much as we did all series in just over half a game. This team is so devoid of top-end talent. They just need to patch it together to keep making AEG money.

Those goals scored for Min will mean squat if they keep leaking goals like crazy, though...I don't think Min can win a scoring contest with the Avs in the long run.

Bottom line is still this: the Kings would have to rebuild to hope for a properly built team that would be a contender considering there are teams out there like the Avs. That isn't happening for at least 2 years. That's a fact, whether me, you, we like it or not.

We know Ken will try to make this team better. Therefore this isn't a discussion whether that is a smart way forward for this organization, this is a discussion what we think Ken can do that would improve this team without sacrificing too much of whatever future assets is left in the cupboard...

 

[ICE24]

At this point, Ken has nothing to lose. He has two more seasons. I don't believe he trades away Ceci, that is his guy. He wouldn't have signed him for four, if he was going to trade him. Holland will try to tinker; however, he will just be chasing his tail. If he had 4 more years on his contract, I believe he would do things much differently.

 

[Clif]

No way Laughton at 5 mil.
You gotta go after a 2c first with all you got.
If that fails you try for a cheaper or better 3c .
If that fails circle back to Laughton

Why not? Danault made 5.5M before the cap went up. And the deal he rejected from MTL was 5M a year.

Of course 2C is a priority but as of now 3C is Turcotte. If you can get Laughton signed early it checks that box off so more attention can be paid to getting players outside the organization.

 

[Bollocks]

Why not? Danault made 5.5M before the cap went up. And the deal he rejected from MTL was 5M a year.

Of course 2C is a priority but as of now 3C is Turcotte. If you can get Laughton signed early it checks that box off so more attention can be paid to getting players outside the organization.

Exactly. It's not like there's a surplus of supply at C in the UFA market. Au contraire.

Laughton was a 40-point guy in Philly days. Maybe he can be that again with an elevated role. Heck, he might even be capable of centering the 2nd line 5 on 5, the only question is then who centers the 2nd PP unit who can also win faceoffs if it turns out he's not a good PP player...maybe Turcotte in a scenario where Laughton is the best Ken can do. Or perhaps that would be Laferriere, since it's less likely he'd have to win a faceoff in a 2nd PP unit. Since in this scenario Laf should stay (I'd only trade him if the eventual return is a legitimate 1/2C).

 

[Dexter]

 

[The Nuts]

Why not? Danault made 5.5M before the cap went up. And the deal he rejected from MTL was 5M a year.

Of course 2C is a priority but as of now 3C is Turcotte. If you can get Laughton signed early it checks that box off so more attention can be paid to getting players outside the organization.

Hi Clif.
Danault was actually targeted to be the 2 C when that contract was signed but slid down as QB progressed.
I want to see Ken go after the best possible 2 c, that is under 35 y old first.
After that, if you have $ left , sure sign Laughton, who I see as a 3 C.
I think you keep talks going throughout though.
One interesting thing is that Mayor said the Kings will have an internal cap in the low 90 mil.
So really the Kings will bring in three player or less, I believe.
But the coach search is on the front burner anyway.
Cheers

 

[Bollocks]

Hi Clif.
Danault was actually targeted to be the 2 C when that contract was signed but slid down as QB progressed.
I want to see Ken go after the best possible 2 c, that is under 35 y old first.
After that, if you have $ left , sure sign Laughton, who I see as a 3 C.
I think you keep talks going throughout though.
One interesting thing is that Mayor said the Kings will have an internal cap in the low 90 mil.
So really the Kings will bring in three player or less, I believe.
But the coach search is on the front burner anyway.
Cheers

I think the plan should be resigning Laughton AND going after a legitimate #2C, or even Nylander/Matthews/Hischier/Thomas type of player.

Laughton can IMO play in a #2C role. He put up 43 in 78 on (then) very s***y Philly team with bad linemates. If Phil could do it, so could he. That would be a very risky scenario when it comes to trying to win, though, and Laughton is best suited as a #3C. But even in that role he's worth 5 mil IMO, with the rising cap. That's just how it is nowadays with inflated prices.

Do not forget that he has other intangibles apart from putting up 3rd line points. Shutting down opposing team's top players, killing penalties and perhaps most improtantly he's apparently a great locker room presence.

A far bigger issue than 5 million 3rd line center are the 8,5 million tied to the bottom pairing D-men. Add Joel's 4-odd million to that number for 3rd pairing D-men as I can't see him keeping up his last season's play, though I'd rather keep him over Dumo or Ceci. I'm afraid Ken will be unwilling to admit his own mistake(s) after only one season...

 

[DryKing]

I think the plan should be resigning Laughton AND going after a legitimate #2C, or even Nylander/Matthews/Hischier/Thomas type of player.

Laughton can IMO play in a #2C role. He put up 43 in 78 on (then) very s***y Philly team with bad linemates. If Phil could do it, so could he. That would be a very risky scenario when it comes to trying to win, though, and Laughton is best suited as a #3C. But even in that role he's worth 5 mil IMO, with the rising cap. That's just how it is nowadays with inflated prices.

Do not forget that he has other intangibles apart from putting up 3rd line points. Shutting down opposing team's top players, killing penalties and perhaps most improtantly he's apparently a great locker room presence.

A far bigger issue than 5 million 3rd line center are the 8,5 million tied to the bottom pairing D-men. Add Joel's 4-odd million to that number for 3rd pairing D-men as I can't see him keeping up his last season's play, though I'd rather keep him over Dumo or Ceci. I'm afraid Ken will be unwilling to admit his own mistake(s) after only one season...

Laughton has a lot of good qualities but scoring is not one of them. Putting him in as Center for our 2nd line basically neuters it. Sure he can play it, but he needs to signed for a L3 Center role imo.

People seem to be sleeping on how good Danault was when we signed him - he was one of the premier shutdown centers in the league and played a large role in MTL getting to the SC Finals the season before. From a scoring perspective, though, he was similar to Laughton (though slightly better) and overachieved his first two seasons with us. By comparison, Laughton scores less and is a step back defensively. Both are/were excellent in terms of intangibles.

As to Centering PP2, it should likely be whomever we sign to play L1/2 Center or Turcotte who can win draws and creates more offensive opportunities than Laughton. Laughton maybe becomes the PK center if resigned?

 

[The Nuts]

Top 10 goalies in this year's playoffs - none of them was picked higher than 3rd round. Two 6th round picks, one 7th (our very own Forsberg) and one undrafted.

Now, a team desperate for a good goalie prospect will be willing to pay decent price for a very talented and highly touted goalie like Carter George...not just because of higher chances he makes it, but also because it's a good sell to the fans.

Trading Rimpinen or Portillo would net the Kings an equivalent of a 3rd, maybe even 4th rounder at this point at best. It's pointless. Yet they both have, by all accounts, very good chances of becoming NHL starting caliber goalies, especially with the Kings' historically stellar goalie development record.

The Kings have only one position with surplus assets (and the only ones they know how to develop well) and IMO they need to cash in on that instead of trading away, for example, one of the only two D prospects worth a damn...



Those goals scored for Min will mean squat if they keep leaking goals like crazy, though...I don't think Min can win a scoring contest with the Avs in the long run.

Bottom line is still this: the Kings would have to rebuild to hope for a properly built team that would be a contender considering there are teams out there like the Avs. That isn't happening for at least 2 years. That's a fact, whether me, you, we like it or not.

We know Ken will try to make this team better. Therefore this isn't a discussion whether that is a smart way forward for this organization, this is a discussion what we think Ken can do that would improve this team without sacrificing too much of whatever future assets is left in the cupboard...

Hoping Ken holds all goalie prospects , to get more value later, foster competition and see how they shake out.
Its there best cards so its important.
This is why its important to get rid of Kuemper, due to his age and poor form after injuries.
Portillo needs his chance at NHL backup, level because he can be lost on waivers next season. Hampton , George and Rimpanen are right behind.
I have been happy with Ken's mindfulness about the future and not dump assets.