Hiller Hotseat Thread

[Birdman]

Could be a decent bridge for transitioning from Kopitar era, but only if he's, like, dirt cheap (2nd+Akil+Ceci). Otherwise I'd rather gamble with Turcotte.

He’s a much better option than Turcotte on so many levels.

Turcotte will never get any bigger.

With 2 years left @ $6.5M per, this ironically has the feel of a Mike Richard’s part deaux written all over it, at a VERY palatable cap hit.

He’s worth way more than what you’re suggesting.

 

[VCRW]

Nah, they dumped their last coach to get their guy.

Time for them to blow it up. Brayden Schenn anyone ?

While I love the player, Schenn is 34 years old. You only trade for him if your team is a bona fide contender.

And he is the Blues' captain... he wouldn't come cheap.

 

[DryKing]

He’s a much better option than Turcotte on so many levels.

Turcotte will never get any bigger.

With 2 years left @ $6.5M per, this ironically has the feel of a Mike Richard’s part deaux written all over it, at a VERY palatable cap hit.

He’s worth way more than what you’re suggesting.

Turcotte should be better than Schenn a couple seasons from now, so what is the real point? If STL wants to give Schenn away cheap then sure, but I don't see anything other than a 1-2 season benefit of acquiring him (meaning I would not pay a high price for him as it does not appear the Kings will be legit contenders during that window).

While I love the player, Schenn is 34 years old. You only trade for him if your team is a bona fide contender.

And he is the Blues' captain... he wouldn't come cheap.

Totally agree, I don't see him warranting the price the Kings would have to pay to acquire him unless the Kings consider themselves a contender this year.

 

[Bollocks]

He’s a much better option than Turcotte on so many levels.

Turcotte will never get any bigger.

With 2 years left @ $6.5M per, this ironically has the feel of a Mike Richard’s part deaux written all over it, at a VERY palatable cap hit.

He’s worth way more than what you’re suggesting.

Are you suggesting Kings minus Kopitar plus Schenn would be any more contenders than they are now?

I mean...sure, if QB takes another step forward and Hiller is replaced it's not impossible. But I'm afraid he'd cost too much for it to be worthwhile. The Kings aren't exactly stacked with prospects except G and I'd loathe to have to choose between either one of them before they get a really good look in the NHL...

 

[Clif]

Pierre Maguire was on Jeff Marek’s show recently and said no GM watches more games than Ken Holland. He has to see this system is unsustainable. McDavid and Drai aside, he still favored a mobile defense in EDM. He has to see this, right?

 

[DryKing]

Pierre Maguire was on Jeff Marek’s show recently and said no GM watches more games than Ken Holland. He has to see this system is unsustainable. McDavid and Drai aside, he still favored a mobile defense in EDM. He has to see this, right?

I expect he will be more active at trade dealine, the draft and offseason this coming year to begin heavily sculpting the roster into what he wants it to be. The question is, do we want him to?

Despite having two of the best players in the world on the roster when he took over the GM role, I really didn't see much to be impressed with during his reign as Oilers GM. Sure he had some good FA signings, but this was during a period in which players were desperate to join the Oilers and what they believed was one of the best teams in the league.

I really think that short of acquiring a top tier superstar (through the draft, FA or trade) I don't see a ton of promise under Holland. Hopefully I am wrong.

 

[Johnnysuede71]

I expect he will be more active at trade dealine, the draft and offseason this coming year to begin heavily sculpting the roster into what he wants it to be. The question is, do we want him to?

Despite having two of the best players in the world on the roster when he took over the GM role, I really didn't see much to be impressed with during his reign as Oilers GM. Sure he had some good FA signings, but this was during a period in which players were desperate to join the Oilers and what they believed was one of the best teams in the league.

I really think that short of acquiring a top tier superstar (through the draft, FA or trade) I don't see a ton of promise under Holland. Hopefully I am wrong.

Some people might think 2 Finals appearance in two years with a roster he essentially put together is somewhat impressive. You could easily argue the Oilers were a top 10 goaltender away from at least one cup.

 

[DryKing]

Some people might think 2 Finals appearance in two years with a roster he essentially put together is somewhat impressive. You could easily argue the Oilers were a top 10 goaltender away from at least one cup.

I would normally agree, except for the fact that he inherited the best player in the world, and another who is easily a top 5 forward, prior to making any roster adjustments.

What did Holland really do for the Oilers? I'd say his real value was in FA signings (which is made easier by having the top player in the league which other players want to play with). I won't blame the loss of Broberg and Holloway on him, but they were the only two players drafted while Holland was GM that have established themselves in the league.

Let's breakdown his drafting in terms of NHL games played by draft year:

2019 - 204
2020 - 189
2021 - 1
2022 - 0
2023 - 0

Total - 394

Now let's look at Florida (who had a pretty similar trajectory during that span):

2019 - 287
2020 - 472
2021 - 101
2022 - 3
2023 - 0

Total - 863

Not saying the above draft results mean a whole lot, but it's clear the Oilers strength, while he was GM, was no found in the draft.

 

[DarkLeftHand]

Turcotte should be better than Schenn a couple seasons from now, so what is the real point? If STL wants to give Schenn away cheap then sure, but I don't see anything other than a 1-2 season benefit of acquiring him (meaning I would not pay a high price for him as it does not appear the Kings will be legit contenders during that window).


Totally agree, I don't see him warranting the price the Kings would have to pay to acquire him unless the Kings consider themselves a contender this year.

Who is this ‘Turcotte’ of which you speak?

 

[DryKing]

Who is this ‘Turcotte’ of which you speak?

Haha Hiller has clearly never heard of him, or Helenius for that matter.

 

[Clif]

Some people might think 2 Finals appearance in two years with a roster he essentially put together is somewhat impressive. You could easily argue the Oilers were a top 10 goaltender away from at least one cup.

This is the heart of it. When you lose 2-1 in game 7 of the Finals it means you built a Cup team, just not a Cup winning team. Saying Holland couldn’t win with the two best players in the world sounds pretty bad until we consider where they were before he got there and where they went during, and immediately after, his tenure.

I expect he will be more active at trade dealine, the draft and offseason this coming year to begin heavily sculpting the roster into what he wants it to be. The question is, do we want him to?

Despite having two of the best players in the world on the roster when he took over the GM role, I really didn't see much to be impressed with during his reign as Oilers GM. Sure he had some good FA signings, but this was during a period in which players were desperate to join the Oilers and what they believed was one of the best teams in the league.

I really think that short of acquiring a top tier superstar (through the draft, FA or trade) I don't see a ton of promise under Holland. Hopefully I am wrong.

McDavid credited Holland with bringing a winning culture to EDM. Signing Hyman was a franchise altering move, not just a good UFA signing. And it still wasn’t as transformative yet as the Ekholm trade. How many trades in the last 10 years can you name where a team secured a legit number 1 defenseman who resigned or still had long term after the initial trade?

Speaking of UFAs, EDM has never been a place everyone wants to play. It’s why he had to pick up both Kane and Perry when they were both disgraced and at their lowest value. Of course, look how they turned out for the Oilers, especially in the playoffs.

He ditched Kostin and Yamamoto for cap space so he could pay guys like Bouchard and then brought in Connor Brown with the savings also. Good depth.

Even on the goalie front, Jack Campbell was the most sought after goalie that summer and Holland got him. It didn’t work out, but that could have happened to a lot of teams. He still made it happen. And to that point, Skinner emerged unexpectedly in Campbell’s wake, and all things considered was very competitive as a plan B early on. He has crumbled with the pressure.

Lastly, he fired and hired coaches when he needed to. I hope he remembers that part.

 

[DryKing]

This is the heart of it. When you lose 2-1 in game 7 of the Finals it means you built a Cup team, just not a Cup winning team. Saying Holland couldn’t win with the two best players in the world sounds pretty bad until we consider where they were before he got there and where they went during, and immediately after, his tenure.

McDavid credited Holland with bringing a winning culture to EDM. Signing Hyman was a franchise altering move, not just a good UFA signing. And it still wasn’t as transformative yet as the Ekholm trade. How many trades in the last 10 years can you name where a team secured a legit number 1 defenseman who resigned or still had long term after the initial trade?

Speaking of UFAs, EDM has never been a place everyone wants to play. It’s why he had to pick up both Kane and Perry when they were both disgraced and at their lowest value. Of course, look how they turned out for the Oilers, especially in the playoffs.

He ditched Kostin and Yamamoto for cap space so he could pay guys like Bouchard and then brought in Connor Brown with the savings also. Good depth.

Even on the goalie front, Jack Campbell was the most sought after goalie that summer and Holland got him. It didn’t work out, but that could have happened to a lot of teams. He still made it happen. And to that point, Skinner emerged unexpectedly in Campbell’s wake, and all things considered was very competitive as a plan B early on. He has crumbled with the pressure.

Lastly, he fired and hired coaches when he needed to. I hope he remembers that part.

Agreed. He also drafted like poo poo and extended Nurse 8 years with a $9.25m AAV. As you said, Eckholm was his best trade and Hyman were his best FA signing - both of which were significant. Campbell was a good FA signing that didn't work out - the big impact there was that he signed him to 5 years out of the gate (likely to be competitive).

If you compare his time with EDM to Blake's time with LA, it's pretty close. Blake did equally as well in FA signings, better in drafting, and relatively even in terms contract extensions - all without having the draw of McDavid and Dry. Trades are a bit of a mixed bag, but he did bring over Gav which was the equivalent of the Eckholm deal. His trade for PLD likely puts Holland ahead on the trading front, however.

You make a key point, however, when it comes to coaching changes - this was the Achilles heel of Blake which Holland has a better record of.

 

[Clif]

Agreed. He also drafted like poo poo and extended Nurse 8 years with a $9.25m AAV. As you said, Eckholm was his best trade and Hyman were his best FA signing - both of which were significant. Campbell was a good FA signing that didn't work out - the big impact there was that he signed him to 5 years out of the gate (likely to be competitive).

If you compare his time with EDM to Blake's time with LA, it's pretty close. Blake did equally as well in FA signings, better in drafting, and relatively even in terms contract extensions - all without having the draw of McDavid and Dry. Trades are a bit of a mixed bag, but he did bring over Gav which was the equivalent of the Eckholm deal. His trade for PLD likely puts Holland ahead on the trading front, however.

You make a key point, however, when it comes to coaching changes - this was the Achilles heel of Blake which Holland has a better record of.

You can only play the cards you’re dealt. In your premise, having McDavid and Draisaitl act a penalty against Holland’s success rate. To say that he and Blake are close is to say that Holland’s Oilers went on deep runs inevitably because of those two, and anything short of a Cup means Holland took defeat from the jaws of victory.

He still brought in the right players. I’d also say Ekholm is (or was) a better dman than Gavrikov and as bad as the Nurse contract was it didn’t set the team back as much as the PLD trade did the Kings. Blake drafted better but he failed to use his stockpile of prospects for impact players in return.

Holland’s team was 2 goals away from cementing him as the GM who brought back the first Cup to Canada since 1993. 2 goals away from not being the guy who couldn’t win with the best player in the world but being the guy who gave the best player in the world a proper lineup to win.

The Oilers miss Kane and Perry. They’re missing Hyman still to injury. They miss the players StL poached. You can see what the two best players in the world look like right now without a proper supporting cast.

But to your point about Blake, I’d say he finally got it right last year and if not for the village idiot coaching the team we’d have seen an awfully successful run from the Kings. And Blake would still be here and likely Gav and Spence and no Ceci. So success and failure and fates or franchises are sometimes, often times actually, just that close.

 

[DryKing]

You can only play the cards you’re dealt. In your premise, having McDavid and Draisaitl act a penalty against Holland’s success rate. To say that he and Blake are close is to say that Holland’s Oilers went on deep runs inevitably because of those two, and anything short of a Cup means Holland took defeat from the jaws of victory.

He still brought in the right players. I’d also say Ekholm is (or was) a better dman than Gavrikov and as bad as the Nurse contract was it didn’t set the team back as much as the PLD trade did the Kings. Blake drafted better but he failed to use his stockpile of prospects for impact players in return.

Holland’s team was 2 goals away from cementing him as the GM who brought back the first Cup to Canada since 1993. 2 goals away from not being the guy who couldn’t win with the best player in the world but being the guy who gave the best player in the world a proper lineup to win.

The Oilers miss Kane and Perry. They’re missing Hyman still to injury. They miss the players StL poached. You can see what the two best players in the world look like right now without a proper supporting cast.

But to your point about Blake, I’d say he finally got it right last year and if not for the village idiot coaching the team we’d have seen an awfully successful run from the Kings. And Blake would still be here and likely Gav and Spence and no Ceci. So success and failure and fates or franchises are sometimes, often times actually, just that close.

When you have the best player in the world on your team, every year is Cup or bust. Holland brought in a good cast around McDavid but not a great one. Yes his success metric was largely influenced by the fact that McDavid, Drai and Bouchard (the true core) were already on the team (not to mention Nudge who does not get enough credit as a player based on being overshadowed by McDavid and Drai).

Obviously this brings cap constraints also so there is only so much Holland could do, but this is why drafting well was all the more essential. If you look at Detroit back when they were winning Cup after Cup, they had their core which they maintained, but they were also able to draft useful pieces (role players really) that kept them moving forward. Hollad may have been able to do so as well, had he stuck around, with Broberg and Holloway becoming useful members of the team (had they retained them), and more recent drafts still being TBD, but we cannot tell.

Ultimately, Holland was not extended with the team feeling it was time to move in a new direction. If the CEO felt Holland was successful during his time with the team, this likely would not have happened.

 

[Dexter]

Should have promoted Sturm if we were gonna promote from within after the Toddfather's departure.

 

[symbology]

Should have promoted Sturm if we were gonna promote from within after the Toddfather's departure.

One could argue that. However, he only had about a year and a half of AHL head coaching experience at that point. He had twice that when the Bruins hired him. With this being Kopi's final year and the Kings putting on a push to make a run in the playoffs it would have been risky to turn the team over to a NHL rookie coach. In hindsight, a good risk to take.