Ken Holland Press Conference

[Ranma]

That's a bold claim, and I don't mean the part about the GM. I think McDavid is an amazing player, and I'd easily give him top marks in his generation, but I'm still a Wayne fan when talking about talent, and Mario was pretty amazing too.

True. Gretzky was "The Great One" due primarily to his tremendous hockey IQ with enough physical ability including skating to execute what his mind read and anticipated on the ice. However, he was undersized and not really a two-way force. Mario Lemieux was and is still arguably the greatest hockey player of all time in terms of size and skill, but despite that, he wasn't really a two-way player either. McDavid, on the other hand, may be lacking in Gretzky's brains and Super Mario's size, but the dude is an effective and clearly a better two-way player, who also happens to have some of the fanciest skills in the modern era.

It remains to be seen who the greatest player of the trio will be but the odds are that title will rest with Gretzky, in part, because "The Great One" had better teams built around him. Mario's teams also qualified as better built rosters than what McDavid has had to go through in Edmonton. In terms of individual ability and effectiveness at both ends of the ice, I think McDavid has a legitimate claim to the title of "most talented".

 

[DryKing]

True. Gretzky was "The Great One" due primarily to his tremendous hockey IQ with enough physical ability including skating to execute what his mind read and anticipated on the ice. However, he was undersized and not really a two-way force. Mario Lemieux was and is still arguably the greatest hockey player of all time in terms of size and skill, but despite that, he wasn't really a two-way player either. McDavid, on the other hand, may be lacking in Gretzky's brains and Super Mario's size, but the dude is an effective and clearly a better two-way player, who also happens to have some of the fanciest skills in the modern era.

It remains to be seen who the greatest player of the trio will be but the odds are that title will rest with Gretzky, in part, because "The Great One" had better teams built around him. Mario's teams also qualified as better built rosters than what McDavid has had to go through in Edmonton. In terms of individual ability and effectiveness at both ends of the ice, I think McDavid has a legitimate claim to the title of "most talented".

Always hard to compare players from different eras, but I'd take Lemieux over McDavid any day.

Gretzky is the clear number 1, though. Maybe had Lemieux not have had health problems he would have emerged at the top, but never has a player in sports been so clearly the most dominant player ever despite era. I don't see McDavid surpassing Lemieux (career 1.88 PPG) let alone Gretzky.

I don't think any of their 2-way games are/were elite. I also would not say McDavid is a better 2-way player than Lemieux was, though he clearly is one of the top skaters in NHL history.

The real question is, will/has McDavid surpass Crosby.

 

[JC6388LAKings]

True. Gretzky was "The Great One" due primarily to his tremendous hockey IQ with enough physical ability including skating to execute what his mind read and anticipated on the ice. However, he was undersized and not really a two-way force. Mario Lemieux was and is still arguably the greatest hockey player of all time in terms of size and skill, but despite that, he wasn't really a two-way player either. McDavid, on the other hand, may be lacking in Gretzky's brains and Super Mario's size, but the dude is an effective and clearly a better two-way player, who also happens to have some of the fanciest skills in the modern era.

It remains to be seen who the greatest player of the trio will be but the odds are that title will rest with Gretzky, in part, because "The Great One" had better teams built around him. Mario's teams also qualified as better built rosters than what McDavid has had to go through in Edmonton. In terms of individual ability and effectiveness at both ends of the ice, I think McDavid has a legitimate claim to the title of "most talented".

The late Gordie Howe would take an exception to these types of claims. Sure, most of his records have been surpassed by other players nowadays, including Gretzky, M.Lemieux, and others, but Howe, to me (despite me never been born to witness his era), is/was the greatest all-around player in hockey. The guy can score, pass, check, and fight with the best of them. He isn't called "Mr. Hockey" for nothing.

 

[DryKing]

The late Gordie Howe would take an exception to these types of claims. Sure, most of his records have been surpassed by other players nowadays, including Gretzky, M.Lemieux, and others, but Howe, to me (despite me never been born to witness his era), is/was the greatest all-around player in hockey. The guy can score, pass, check, and fight with the best of them. He isn't called "Mr. Hockey" for nothing.

Bobby Orr would be in the conversation also. I wasn't around when he was playing but from what I've heard from those who were, he was a true marvel.

 

[King of Pentacle5]

The late Gordie Howe would take an exception to these types of claims. Sure, most of his records have been surpassed by other players nowadays, including Gretzky, M.Lemieux, and others, but Howe, to me (despite me never been born to witness his era), is/was the greatest all-around player in hockey. The guy can score, pass, check, and fight with the best of them. He isn't called "Mr. Hockey" for nothing.

The closest player to him in the modern era is Ovechkin.

 

[Dr. Tran]

In terms of being the greatest player, does it matter that McDavid has played over 10 years & hasn't won a Cup? Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, & Crosby all won a Cup before their 10 season. The only player at this level to win it after his 10th season is Ovechkin. You could say it's all someone else's fault that he hasn't won. But it makes it seem like he has nothing to do with those losses. And I remember him disappearing those last couple of games in both finals appearance.

 

[NothingBut5Hole]

In terms of being the greatest player, does it matter that McDavid has played over 10 years & hasn't won a Cup? Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, & Crosby all won a Cup before their 10 season. The only player at this level to win it after his 10th season is Ovechkin. You could say it's all someone else's fault that he hasn't won. But it makes it seem like he has nothing to do with those losses. And I remember him disappearing those last couple of games in both finals appearance.

isn't hard to make that comparison based on the evolution of the game? I mean, the goaltending has gone from a stand up and flop around technique with oversized shin pads to the butterfly cover as much as you can with oversized battle armor.

Its the whole Jordan vs Lebron argument, chicken vs the egg, Jetski vs McJesus (I hate that damn commercial!)

 

[DryKing]

In terms of being the greatest player, does it matter that McDavid has played over 10 years & hasn't won a Cup? Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, & Crosby all won a Cup before their 10 season. The only player at this level to win it after his 10th season is Ovechkin. You could say it's all someone else's fault that he hasn't won. But it makes it seem like he has nothing to do with those losses. And I remember him disappearing those last couple of games in both finals appearance.

It's like the blemish on Dan Marino's career. While it is not solely McDavid's fault the team has not won the Cup (and let's be honest, he is one of the top playoff performers ever thus far), it definitely holds him back in the conversation (imo).

Gold medals are part of the equation too, even though a player has even less sole control over winning those.