GDT ***Playoffs Rd1 GAME 4 GDT 4/28/24 7:30pm on BSW, TBS, TRU, max***

[05/29/93]

guys, gals, you are all talking like this series is over. Last I checked there is still a game on Wednesday. It is not over! Let's have this converstation on Thursday okay?

Thursday? How about at the end of May?
(Wakes up from daydream). Yeah, it probably will be Thursday, but stranger things have happened.
Humor aside, the Kings have won 4 times in Edmonton the past three playoff series, so they have shown they can win up there. That moves Wednesday's game from the "almost impossible" to "unlikely" category.

 

[symbology]

guys, gals, you are all talking like this series is over. Last I checked there is still a game on Wednesday. It is not over! Let's have this converstation on Thursday okay?

Sure, I guess.

Though, many of us have been having this conversation for a few months now.

 

[symbology]

A lot of this is correct I think.
Gavrikov and Roy have not been good in this series. But both were good during the season.
I’m not sure how much I value Spence moving forward. His lack of size and strength are concerning. I do like that he is mobile.

So much of the off-season depends on who the GM is. Is it an overhaul or just nipping around the edges.

Re PLD, I have felt all along that strategically it was a bold and smart move to have depth at C. I think I understand why Blake made the trade.
It has not turned out well. It’s like in baseball where they sacrifice or hit & run, and it doesn’t work out. The strategy was sound, the execution was the issue.

I like Hiller. I think he’s committed and clear-eyed. I think Blake has made several good moves. I don’t care whatsoever if either return or are let go.

I see a lot of the “Fire Blake!” And “Get rid of Luc!” I laugh, particularly with Luc—He’s not there for his hockey knowledge, he’s there for the PR and relationships with people and groups the Kings work with.

I don’t know what happens between now and next year. A full rebuild while Kopi & Doughty are still here seems unlikely. Getting rid of dead weight seems obvious.

What I suspect will happen is an attempt to move PLD in a trade. I’m hopeful that perhaps a deal for Chychrun is possible with PLD as the centerpiece.

I hope Arvy can stay. He’s hard to replace.
I think Roy is worth retaining but not on a foolish contract. Clarke has to be in the lineup and either Roy or Spence will be gone.

I think and hope we have seen the last of Grundstrom, Lewis, Talbot, Lizzotte (respect his play but he’s gonna get killed someday), and Kaliyev.

If trading PLD creates some needed cap space the Kings can get better.

As I said I’m not tied to Blake or Hiller. My main concern is what happens if they are fired? Who replaces Blake? Who is brought in to coach? I don’t want to see Hiller fired to bring in a recycled coach.
These are the hard parts. Fire Blake! Is the easy part. Replacing him is the trickier part and that’s what bothers me about the situation.

The only thing that I have any issue with is your baseball analogy. Reason being, they should have known that PLD was not going to work out. It is like trying to steal 2nd on a fastball pitcher, an all star catcher and the runner at first is slower than average. Sure you tried and failed, but what the heck for?

In the back of mind though, is the fact that when PLD went to the Jets, his first year saw a drop in performance. Maybe he needs more time than most to gel with the team and sort things out. Well, we can only hope.

 

[LAKingSteve]

The only thing that I have any issue with is your baseball analogy. Reason being, they should have known that PLD was not going to work out.

This...all the signs were there. I was optimistic that the guy would step up and play better if he was in a situation he wanted to be in. This just tells me that a) he's been in his own head after the slow start and has real confidence issues that affect his game and/or b) he's just not the player anyone thought he was.

 

[Statue4Deano]

Clarke got into a couple fights this year. Not mature enough to face Mark Stone yet (hopefully never, really), but he’s 6’2” and has a feisty side.

The second pair is a conundrum. I don’t want to see Blake/new GM pay Gavy anymore than he’s making, and since he’s only on a two year deal he’ll look for a raise. At that point I’d rather trade him and pay Roy. I floated the idea of trading Spence for Chychrun in that scenario as I believe that would get it done. Add-ons would be minimal.

I like it as it adds a puck mover on the left. Problem is of course what Chychrun demands next contract just one year from now. Also Spence is more of a successor to Doughty in style than Clarke. Spence and Clarke both in their prime will be an impressive right side.

Again, this team was simply not ready for the big push forward. A top-down approach with management and a coach who understands that is crucial. Perhaps Blake learned his lesson this year, but PLD feels like strike 3 regarding his judgment after Kovalchuck and Peterson.

I would take Chychrun in a heart beat. I wondered at the trade deadline if Ottawa would be interested in a Chychrun for Gavrikov swap. Why would Gavrikov/Chychrun waive their NTC? The deal would require a contract extension for each.

Chychrun/Doughty would be the 1st pair next season. Anderson/Clarke the new 2nd pair and an open internal competition for the 3rd pair left side next to Spence.

That’s a significant improvement over this season in terms of mobility, puck movement and should improve the 5v5 offense and PP.

While Chychrun and Clarke aren’t physical like Gavrikov and Roy they are both big and sturdy.

 

[DoubleMinor]

Thursday? How about at the end of May?
(Wakes up from daydream). Yeah, it probably will be Thursday, but stranger things have happened.
Humor aside, the Kings have won 4 times in Edmonton the past three playoff series, so they have shown they can win up there. That moves Wednesday's game from the "almost impossible" to "unlikely" category.

The only thing that I have any issue with is your baseball analogy. Reason being, they should have known that PLD was not going to work out. It is like trying to steal 2nd on a fastball pitcher, an all star catcher and the runner at first is slower than average. Sure you tried and failed, but what the heck for?

In the back of mind though, is the fact that when PLD went to the Jets, his first year saw a drop in performance. Maybe he needs more time than most to gel with the team and sort things out. Well, we can only hope.

 

[DoubleMinor]

I don’t necessarily believe that PLD was put in a position to succeed on this team this year, especially given his history. Instead of a rotating cast of line mates they could have nurtured the investment better by surrounding him with stanility. Fiala is a dynamic player, but not easy to play with.
But…there is no argument that PLD has not worked out. The decision is whether to try to undo the damage with a trade or buyout or give him another year to assess.

Not sure I think the baseball analogy is wrong. I’m not suggesting the analogy is a stolen base with a slow runner. It’s a hit and run or sacrifice because the runner is too slow to steal a base. Again, I get the strategy of trying for depth down the middle. I don’t think Blake was wrong to aim for that. Either it was bad idea or wrong player. I think the vision was correct though.
That being said, there were warning signs with PLD that were either incorporated or ignored.

Clearly Dubois is a bit of a different breed. Not sure he’s a head case but certainly is fragile. Maybe time is the solution.
All year I advocated for patience, wait until playoffs, but we have seen no real consistent improvement. Flashes of what he might be followed by disappearing acts.

Interesting insight from you about the first year of PLD with the Jets.
L

 

[symbology]

I don’t necessarily believe that PLD was put in a position to succeed on this team this year, especially given his history. Instead of a rotating cast of line mates they could have nurtured the investment better by surrounding him with stanility. Fiala is a dynamic player, but not easy to play with.
But…there is no argument that PLD has not worked out. The decision is whether to try to undo the damage with a trade or buyout or give him another year to assess.

Not sure I think the baseball analogy is wrong. I’m not suggesting the analogy is a stolen base with a slow runner. It’s a hit and run or sacrifice because the runner is too slow to steal a base. Again, I get the strategy of trying for depth down the middle. I don’t think Blake was wrong to aim for that. Either it was bad idea or wrong player. I think the vision was correct though.
That being said, there were warning signs with PLD that were either incorporated or ignored.

Clearly Dubois is a bit of a different breed. Not sure he’s a head case but certainly is fragile. Maybe time is the solution.
All year I advocated for patience, wait until playoffs, but we have seen no real consistent improvement. Flashes of what he might be followed by disappearing acts.

Interesting insight from you about the first year of PLD with the Jets.
L

I am suggesting the more accurate analogy is the slow runner trying to steal the base. The outcome with PLD should have been known. At least the risk sould have been known, based on his career so far.

The problem with keeping PLD is the fact that he will have a NMC, or NTC kicking in on 7/1. So, the Kings need to decide this year if they are going to try to trade him. If so, they need to do so before 7/1. PLD likes LA and the beach life to much to want to move anywhere, IMO.

 

[Halfwall]

I would take Chychrun in a heart beat. I wondered at the trade deadline if Ottawa would be interested in a Chychrun for Gavrikov swap. Why would Gavrikov/Chychrun waive their NTC? The deal would require a contract extension for each.

Chychrun/Doughty would be the 1st pair next season. Anderson/Clarke the new 2nd pair and an open internal competition for the 3rd pair left side next to Spence.

That’s a significant improvement over this season in terms of mobility, puck movement and should improve the 5v5 offense and PP.

While Chychrun and Clarke aren’t physical like Gavrikov and Roy they are both big and sturdy.

You gotta be kidding. Put down whatever it is you are drinking. Gavi is the only D with any size. Your D would be obliterated in its own end. Playoff hockey? Forget it.

 

[DoubleMinor]

I am suggesting the more accurate analogy is the slow runner trying to steal the base. The outcome with PLD should have been known. At least the risk sould have been known, based on his career so far.

The problem with keeping PLD is the fact that he will have a NMC, or NTC kicking in on 7/1. So, the Kings need to decide this year if they are going to try to trade him. If so, they need to do so before 7/1. PLD likes LA and the beach life to much to want to move anywhere, IMO.

Yeah, I get it. I don’t think we necessarily have opposing views here.

Absolutely there were concerns about PLD and I would expect that the Kings (Blake) were not only aware but had been convinced that they could manage the player and get the production.
Which is why I think it was a mistake to not put PLD in the best position to succeed.

Now, should the Kings have to accommodate every aspect of an 8M$ player? Hard to imagine the answer is yes. But the well known concerns should have led to an understanding inside the organization that this was a different type player who needed special handling. Some guys need a kick in the butt, others respond to the pat on the back. Whatever approach, this acquisition has been far from successful.

I think this was a crucial move and Blake should have known that it had to work out, not for the team but for his own job security.

I would be very curious about the relationship with PLD and McClellan. I think that’s a real key here.

You are exactly right that this is an off-season decision with the NMC/NTC right in front of them.

Given the circumstances, I believe they have to move on and salvage what they can out of this. I have no idea what the market could be for PLD after this season. But, if the Kings can shed the contract and obtain a big winger or defensive player and maybe add a couple mil to the available cap space, it’s not a bad result moving forward. It is still salvageable in my opinion.

Part of my patience with this PLD situation was based on how important he was to the future of the Kings. I wanted him to succeed (not in a rose colored glass manner) but in a granular form. He is a guy who could be an impact player who helped the team improve a lot.

We have seen enough to know the risk and it just seems obvious and prudent to cut the loss. I can’t see the logic in not moving him.

 

[Clif]

I would take Chychrun in a heart beat. I wondered at the trade deadline if Ottawa would be interested in a Chychrun for Gavrikov swap. Why would Gavrikov/Chychrun waive their NTC? The deal would require a contract extension for each.

Chychrun/Doughty would be the 1st pair next season. Anderson/Clarke the new 2nd pair and an open internal competition for the 3rd pair left side next to Spence.

That’s a significant improvement over this season in terms of mobility, puck movement and should improve the 5v5 offense and PP.

While Chychrun and Clarke aren’t physical like Gavrikov and Roy they are both big and sturdy.

Trading Gavy for Chychrun would be brilliant if Blake/GM could pull that off. OTT might be just the team who wouldn’t mind a reclamation project in Kaliyev also.

One variation would be Spence on the second pair. Easier transition for Mikey away from Drew and a responsible unit for the top four. Englund and Clarke may result in as many 5-on-5 goals against as they do for, but as you said competition and options.

You gotta be kidding. Put down whatever it is you are drinking. Gavi is the only D with any size. Your D would be obliterated in its own end. Playoff hockey? Forget it.

Gavrikov has size like Moverare has size. They’re both 6’3” and don’t hit.

 

[Halfwall]

Trading Gavy for Chychrun would be brilliant if Blake/GM could pull that off. OTT might be just the team who wouldn’t mind a reclamation project in Kaliyev also.

One variation would be Spence on the second pair. Easier transition for Mikey away from Drew and a responsible unit for the top four. Englund and Clarke may result in as many 5-on-5 goals against as they do for, but as you said competition and options.

Gavrikov has size like Moverare has size. They’re both 6’3” and don’t hit.

It's not hitting but reach that matters. IMO, maybe the biggest sin of TM/JH is not having QB out on the PK. Edmonton just laughs when they see a bunch of midgets out there (TM/BL) trying to prevent cross ice passes.

 

[Clif]

It's not hitting but reach that matters. IMO, maybe the biggest sin of TM/JH is not having QB out on the PK. Edmonton just laughs when they see a bunch of midgets out there (TM/BL) trying to prevent cross ice passes.

That part of it is fair. Part of Vegas’ success defensively is have huge bodies on D that are physically tougher to navigate. They clog up lanes like crazy.

Drew and Mikey are so good defensively I could see the infusion of more mobility making a stronger team over all.

 

[shoot2scor]

Thursday? How about at the end of May?
(Wakes up from daydream). Yeah, it probably will be Thursday, but stranger things have happened.
Humor aside, the Kings have won 4 times in Edmonton the past three playoff series, so they have shown they can win up there. That moves Wednesday's game from the "almost impossible" to "unlikely" category.

I agree, if the Kings are somehow able to replicate Game 4's play I like their chances. First 10 minutes and first goal IMO are critical.

 

[Statue4Deano]

It's not hitting but reach that matters. IMO, maybe the biggest sin of TM/JH is not having QB out on the PK. Edmonton just laughs when they see a bunch of midgets out there (TM/BL) trying to prevent cross ice passes.

Glad someone mentioned this. The Game 3 image of Blake Lizotte trying and failing spectacularly to stop McDavid down low 1 on 1 on the PK burned into my brain.

 

[Halfwall]

Glad someone mentioned this. The Game 3 image of Blake Lizotte trying and failing spectacularly to stop McDavid down low 1 on 1 on the PK burned into my brain.

...and don't forget Mikey getting undressed by McDavid's spinarama.