Byfield

[Statue4Deano]

No way the Kings can soften this already cream puff D even more by icing both Clarke and Spence.

Then you’re handcuffing the team and forcing them into playing a 1-3-1. Simple as that.

Look around the league and take note of the top offenses and the teams who go deep in the playoffs. They all have defensemen who favor puck movement over physicality.

Last season Florida had 1.5 physical guys with no real puck movement ability. Same with Vegas.

The Kings have 4 guys who they play nightly with little to no controlled zone exit/playmaking ability from the blue line. It’s not a coincidence that the Kings offense gets stuck in the mud.

The league has changed. The 2012 model of roster construction is obsolete.

 

[santiclaws]

No way the Kings can soften this already cream puff D even more by icing both Clarke and Spence.

Dean? Dean, that you?

 

[DryKing]

Then you’re handcuffing the team and forcing them into playing a 1-3-1. Simple as that.

Look around the league and take note of the top offenses and the teams who go deep in the playoffs. They all have defensemen who favor puck movement over physicality.

Last season Florida had 1.5 physical guys with no real puck movement ability. Same with Vegas.

The Kings have 4 guys who they play nightly with little to no controlled zone exit/playmaking ability from the blue line. It’s not a coincidence that the Kings offense gets stuck in the mud.

The league has changed. The 2012 model of roster construction is obsolete.

That's a fallacy - the 2012 roster still wins the Cup today if they play like they did in the playoffs. Also you called out, in a previous post within this thread, Roy for not contributing offensively when he has the 2nd most points amongst defensemen. I get that he, and Anderson, are stay at home first defensemen, but they are the two I would keep over any other currently on the roster.

I do agree that there *may* come a time when we can put both Spence and Clarke out there and still be successful in the playoffs, but that time is not today nor does it appear to be in the near future. Clarke is undersized and consistently gets out-muscled, but he will overcome this with more experience and bulk. Clarke is just extremely weak in the defensive zone today and likely another 2-3 seasons away from being complete enough to complete in the playoffs without a player like Anderson or Roy making up for his mistakes and shortcomings.

When we look at the teams you are mentioning, their offensive minded defensemen are not liabilities in the defensive zone. They might be small, like a Hughes, but they have the savvy to know where to be and how to be effective (even if not stellar) in both ends.

 

[aragorn]

Then you’re handcuffing the team and forcing them into playing a 1-3-1. Simple as that.

Look around the league and take note of the top offenses and the teams who go deep in the playoffs. They all have defensemen who favor puck movement over physicality.

Last season Florida had 1.5 physical guys with no real puck movement ability. Same with Vegas.

The Kings have 4 guys who they play nightly with little to no controlled zone exit/playmaking ability from the blue line. It’s not a coincidence that the Kings offense gets stuck in the mud.

The league has changed. The 2012 model of roster construction is obsolete.

Our 2012 roster would hammer these teams physically and thoroughly. But that construction relied on the players involved and the NHL rules of that era... you can't plug just any dude into a slot. We don't have that personnel anymore.

 

[aragorn]

I highly doubt Roy goes unless he demands top dollar perhaps. We need to keep Roy if at all possible, he is far better than he gets credit for.

I like Roy but we don't need Roy at his price range.

 

[DarkLeftHand]

I like Roy but we don't need Roy at his price range.

I understand the sentiment, and I’m definitely not singling you out but this seems like as good a spot as any to inject my perspective. If we don’t need Roy at his price point, do we also not need Gavrikov at his -higher- price point? I will confess, I have not looked at the advanced metrics between the two, but Roy has a much higher +/-, and the two are about equal in terms of offensive output. The difference is that Roy brings a physical edge, whereas Gavy brings reach, but does not play to his size, in terms of physically punishing the opposition.

 

[HiFi]

I love all the Clarke commentary. He has been exposed in the defensive end too much. HOWEVER, I think he’d make a better forward than some of the lack of producers we have in that role at the moment. Toss him on the wing over somebody else.

Teams play with an extra at a spot constantly now, as well. Why not have a forward who’s really supposed to be a defenseman? Better than the other way around.

Essentially if we’re going to lose to the Oilers again, let’s at least “have some fun,” throw darts at a board, try some outlandish-ish, see what we may have going forward, and just all in all disregard convention.

On the other hand, if we’re going to beat the Oilers, let’s at least “have some fun,” throw darts at….eh, you know the rest.

Just saying.

 

[Statue4Deano]

That's a fallacy - the 2012 roster still wins the Cup today if they play like they did in the playoffs. Also you called out, in a previous post within this thread, Roy for not contributing offensively when he has the 2nd most points amongst defensemen. I get that he, and Anderson, are stay at home first defensemen, but they are the two I would keep over any other currently on the roster.

I do agree that there *may* come a time when we can put both Spence and Clarke out there and still be successful in the playoffs, but that time is not today nor does it appear to be in the near future. Clarke is undersized and consistently gets out-muscled, but he will overcome this with more experience and bulk. Clarke is just extremely weak in the defensive zone today and likely another 2-3 seasons away from being complete enough to complete in the playoffs without a player like Anderson or Roy making up for his mistakes and shortcomings.

When we look at the teams you are mentioning, their offensive minded defensemen are not liabilities in the defensive zone. They might be small, like a Hughes, but they have the savvy to know where to be and how to be effective (even if not stellar) in both ends.

The NHL is just fundamentally different today vs. 2012. Saying the 2012 team can beat any playoff team today is no different than saying the 98 Red Wings can beat any team today… Great! Should teams start playing the Left Wing lock again? Tactics and strategies evolve. That is the only constant in professional sports.

You can either build a team for today and the near future or he can build it for the past and expect the NHL to bend to your will. That strategy has been tried many times before by many different GM and all of them fail.

I’ve got no problem with Matt Roy. He’s a fine defenseman. The fact that he’s the 2nd highest scoring defenseman on the team with 25 points is an indictment on how the team is built not on Matt. Hell I wouldn’t mind holding on to Matt if there were another way to add to skill to the blue line. The problem is the organization’s most valuable young defenseman is a right shot same as Matt. And Roy is going to get a significant pay raise in about 60 days. So I wish him well and I’ll take my chances with Clarke.

The Kings were handed a gift by the hockey gods. They’ve got a 21 year old 6’ 5” 215 lbs hockey savant who skates like the wind, plays a 200’ game, is a demon along the boards, can beat any defenseman in the league 1 on 1 and is a coach’s dream. He’s built for today’s NHL. Byfield is the future of this franchise. Whoever is the next GM needs to build around him.

Dean Lombardi was handed the gift of a 20 year old Kopitar and a 18 year old Drew Doughty. He was able to squeeze two Cups of out of them. His stubbornness and refusal to evolve may have cost them a couple more. We’ll never know because he wanted the NHL to bend to his will and the organization has been in a black hole for the last decade because of that desire and because Blake refused to wipe the slate clean once he took over.

 

[aragorn]

The NHL is just fundamentally different today vs. 2012. Saying the 2012 team can beat any playoff team today is no different than saying the 98 Red Wings can beat any team today… Great! Should teams start playing the Left Wing lock again? Tactics and strategies evolve. That is the only constant in professional sports.

You can either build a team for today and the near future or he can build it for the past and expect the NHL to bend to your will. That strategy has been tried many times before by many different GM and all of them fail.

I’ve got no problem with Matt Roy. He’s a fine defenseman. The fact that he’s the 2nd highest scoring defenseman on the team with 25 points is an indictment on how the team is built not on Matt. Hell I wouldn’t mind holding on to Matt if there were another way to add to skill to the blue line. The problem is the organization’s most valuable young defenseman is a right shot same as Matt. And Roy is going to get a significant pay raise in about 60 days. So I wish him well and I’ll take my chances with Clarke.

The Kings were handed a gift by the hockey gods. They’ve got a 21 year old 6’ 5” 215 lbs hockey savant who skates like the wind, plays a 200’ game, is a demon along the boards, can beat any defenseman in the league 1 on 1 and is a coach’s dream. He’s built for today’s NHL. Byfield is the future of this franchise. Whoever is the next GM needs to build around him.

Dean Lombardi was handed the gift of a 20 year old Kopitar and a 18 year old Drew Doughty. He was able to squeeze two Cups of out of them. His stubbornness and refusal to evolve may have cost them a couple more. We’ll never know because he wanted the NHL to bend to his will and the organization has been in a black hole for the last decade because of that desire and because Blake refused to wipe the slate clean once he took over.

The NHL is much different than 2012… rules have really changed to stop the physicality the 2012 Kings brought to the table. But you make it sound like bringing these 2024 playoff teams back to 2012 would be some mismatch. The Kings would do just fine. Their style was great because they had the personnel to make it great. You sound like one of those folks who always think in terms of CEIB (current era is best) and I’ve never fallen into that concept.

 

[Birdman]

The NHL is much different than 2012… rules have really changed to stop the physicality the 2012 Kings brought to the table. But you make it sound like bringing these 2024 playoff teams back to 2012 would be some mismatch. The Kings would do just fine. Their style was great because they had the personnel to make it great. You sound like one of those folks who always think in terms of CEIB (current era is best) and I’ve never fallen into that concept.

The NHL is just fundamentally different today vs. 2012. Saying the 2012 team can beat any playoff team today is no different than saying the 98 Red Wings can beat any team today… Great! Should teams start playing the Left Wing lock again? Tactics and strategies evolve. That is the only constant in professional sports.

You can either build a team for today and the near future or he can build it for the past and expect the NHL to bend to your will. That strategy has been tried many times before by many different GM and all of them fail.

I’ve got no problem with Matt Roy. He’s a fine defenseman. The fact that he’s the 2nd highest scoring defenseman on the team with 25 points is an indictment on how the team is built not on Matt. Hell I wouldn’t mind holding on to Matt if there were another way to add to skill to the blue line. The problem is the organization’s most valuable young defenseman is a right shot same as Matt. And Roy is going to get a significant pay raise in about 60 days. So I wish him well and I’ll take my chances with Clarke.

The Kings were handed a gift by the hockey gods. They’ve got a 21 year old 6’ 5” 215 lbs hockey savant who skates like the wind, plays a 200’ game, is a demon along the boards, can beat any defenseman in the league 1 on 1 and is a coach’s dream. He’s built for today’s NHL. Byfield is the future of this franchise. Whoever is the next GM needs to build around him.

Dean Lombardi was handed the gift of a 20 year old Kopitar and a 18 year old Drew Doughty. He was able to squeeze two Cups of out of them. His stubbornness and refusal to evolve may have cost them a couple more. We’ll never know because he wanted the NHL to bend to his will and the organization has been in a black hole for the last decade because of that desire and because Blake refused to wipe the slate clean once he took over.

Do you all actually watch the playoffs?

Physicality usually wins because they put the whistles away.

BTW, they changed the rules after the lockout to do away with the dead puck era.

 

[Statue4Deano]

The NHL is much different than 2012… rules have really changed to stop the physicality the 2012 Kings brought to the table. But you make it sound like bringing these 2024 playoff teams back to 2012 would be some mismatch. The Kings would do just fine. Their style was great because they had the personnel to make it great. You sound like one of those folks who always think in terms of CEIB (current era is best) and I’ve never fallen into that concept.

It’s not about current being better. It’s about the current style of the game favoring different player characteristics and styles. That’s not a value judgement. That’s an assessment of what winning teams look like today vs. 12 years ago.

 

[aragorn]

It’s not about current being better. It’s about the current style of the game favoring different player characteristics and styles. That’s not a value judgement. That’s an assessment of what winning teams look like today vs. 12 years ago.

I wouldn't use "current style" but rather "forced style change." Teams that played like Kings and Blues in 2012 would be penalized to death today. The Kings filled their team with players to take advantage of the play calling of a decade ago.

 

[Statue4Deano]

Do you all actually watch the playoffs?

Physicality usually wins because they put the whistles away.

BTW, they changed the rules after the lockout to do away with the dead puck era.

Is physical play limited to defensemen?

How physical is Dallas’ defense? Carolina’s? Vancouver? Edmonton? Rangers? Boston’s?

Some are about as physical but most are deliberately less physical. Yet all of those teams had more wins in the regular season and significantly better odds at getting out of the first round than the Kings do. Why is that?

Because they all move the puck out of their zone better than LA. That’s how you score goals and win games in 2024.

Winnipeg is the model Blake is chasing. The problem is they have the best goaltender on the planet. So where does that leave LA? Behind the 8 ball.

I’m all for playing a physical style but icing 4 defensemen who can’t break the puck out of their zone cleanly is not a winning strategy in 2024 and that’s how the Kings are currently built.

 

[Statue4Deano]

I wouldn't use "current style" but rather "forced style change." Teams that played like Kings and Blues in 2012 would be penalized to death today. The Kings filled their team with players to take advantage of the play calling of a decade ago.

The league wanted higher scoring games and that’s what they got. Now you can either adapt or you can sit back and complain while your team gets bounced by the Oilers 3 years in a row.

I’m imploring Blake or whoever the next GM is to adapt.

 

[Pevsfreedom]

The league wanted higher scoring games and that’s what they got. Now you can either adapt or you can sit back and complain while your team gets bounced by the Oilers 3 years in a row.

I’m imploring Blake or whoever the next GM is to adapt.

I sometimes wonder if teams can win anymore without a "superstar" type player that I'm not sure the Kings have had since that one guy in the 90s. I hope it doesn't come to that -- one thing I like about hockey is it's still a team sport for the most part. The Oilers PK makes me question that sometimes as it's clearly some kind of cheat code. I'l agree I think in that being a big mean team like 2012/4 with insane goaltending might not win today. It's a lot more leaning towards scoring, speed, and skill nowadays.

 

[Kurisu]

Do you all actually watch the playoffs?

Physicality usually wins because they put the whistles away.

BTW, they changed the rules after the lockout to do away with the dead puck era.

Did you guys watch yesterday's games? All they talked about in both and analysis after was the brutal physicality and sheer number of hits.
Made me worried for our current construction. Carolina and Boston looked like beasts.

 

[Kurisu]

Here's what both games felt like throughout.

 

[Kurisu]

 

[HiFi]

I sometimes wonder if teams can win anymore without a "superstar" type player…

Even Gretzky wasn’t prime. We’ve never really had that guy. We need one. Even without winning a Cup, it’s something to watch. Maybe I’ll get to making the meme I had in my head.

 

[Birdman]

Did you guys watch yesterday's games? All they talked about in both and analysis after was the brutal physicality and sheer number of hits.
Made me worried for our current construction. Carolina and Boston looked like beasts.

I’ve watched the playoffs for the last 10 years, wondering the entire time why everybody keeps railing on getting more speed and skill and less worried about size.

Every year, the teams that get deeper in the playoffs are winning the corner battles, getting the greasy goals going to the net, and are wearing the other teams down over a long series.

Edmonton did that to us the last 2 years, and this year loaded up with more of that size and grit.

Not going to fault the skill guys who score, you need some of that, but the reality is that it becomes a physics problem when a guy 5’10” and 185 lbs has to outwork a 6’2” 225 guy for the puck in the corner.

There’s a reason Maroon has played over 100 playoff games the last 5 years, and it has nothing to do with skill.