All Things:AMC television

[lunchbox]

It seemed like the opposite to me. Punctuated by the fact that he had tears rolling down his cheek as he said it.

i can see it that way also. i was still thinking about the knife fight. haha. but walt's relationship with his family is totally multi-dimensional. he started all this for them. he wanted to leave the money to them. i can totally see that phone call as his claiming responsibility for everything and absolving skyler of any wrongdoing. but i'm sure there was a lot of anger towards her for revealing the truth to walt jr.

Although I did wonder why he didn't also mention killing Mike to Jesse when he was telling him about watching Jane die.

i think it's because he knew the part about jane dying was the revelation that would hurt him the most. jesse already sort of suspected walt killed mike and jesse was never in love with mike. he had no idea that walt was there or that he could have saved her. discovering this news was on a level worse than finding out that walt poisoned brock to manipulate him.

 

[NastiMarvasti]

that's an interesting angle that i didn't see last night. i think it's somewhere between this and walt being heisenberg. he was straight up pissed and looked like he could kill skyler during that knife fight. i was on the edge of my couch during that. then when he hatefully called her a bitch he really sounded like he meaned it. the feelings he displayed when holly kept saying "mama" in the bathroom was walt though.




look at the reflection on the left. bullet in walt's head. possible foreshadowing or just a mindtrick by the cinematographers, you decide!

I read that scene as though Walt was cutting ties, realizing just how far things had gone, allowing his family to carry on without him and doing his best to reduce any role Skylar may have had to anyone who was listening. His tone was very menacing, but that was the saddest moment in the series for me. Leaving Holly with the FD was symbolic of letting it all go.

Although I did wonder why he didn't also mention killing Mike to Jesse when he was telling him about watching Jane die.

Jesse pretty much figured out that Walt killed Mike on his own. The Jane thing though, he completely clueless on.

Edit: what lunchbox said.

 

[NastiMarvasti]

Just thinking back now I think the first time we really see Heisenberg is when Tuco is about to shoot Jesse in the beginning of Season 2. His attitude and even voice changed in the one line where he said something like, "You're a degenerate and you deserve to die". This is what I love about this show. Seeds are planted way before we see the eventual flower bloom. It shows that the writers put a lot of thought into it. Unlike Dexter where every angle is introduced out of nowhere.

 

[Butch 19]

Only two episodes left k-crying:

Glad there are 2 left. Half way thru this show, I thought they had only one left and there is no way they can tie it all up in 60 or 90 minutes.

And the indian in the adobe house is now wondering how many more stacks of cash he could have really got for his truck... impride8lr:

I liked when Skylar walked into the kitchen; she had the choice of "do I pick up the phone or do I pick up the knife?" I thought she would take the phone.

 

[Dr. Naysay]

My concern is that in tearing it all away and burning it to the ground the end is going to leave a bad taste, regardless of how appropriate and/or well done. Walt has never been as much of a soulless monster as he appears to be now. Saving Jesse and killing Jack and the Aryan bunch would go a long way. Don't feel sorry for Hank. He had a good death. He will be missed. The shot of baby Holly playing peek-a-boo while crying in the fire engine was heartbreaking.

NO!

Damn you JD!!!!!!

You of all people!!! You that rant and rave about the popcorn munching masses of nudnicks who blindly gobble up main stream media pablum and prevent risk taking film makers and artists.

I WANT A BITTER TASTE IN MY MOUTH.

That's what this show IS.

For Walt to come riding in on a white horse in the final episode to rescue Jesse from Nazi Meth Servitude without anything to gain would be a betrayal of the character and the show.

Yes. I'm taking it way too seriously.

As for whether or not Walt is a good or bad person NOW...

I think a far more interesting exploration is "Was Walter White EVER a good person?"

I would argue....

No. No he wasn't.

 

[NastiMarvasti]

I asked myself that question today, Doc. A good person would never have done the things Walter White has done. Like a comment I read on IMDB, bad people always justify their actions. Even Hitler didn't think he was being evil. We're watching this show from the point of view of Walter so we rationalize with him when in fact, he's the bad guy and in no way different from Gus.

There is no reasonable way to rebuild the bridge between Walter and Jesse at this point. That ship has sailed and I would also say the same for Skyler and Marie.

 

[Dr. Naysay]

The larger question of course is... if Walter White was never a good person....

Are any of us? What is a "good person"? From the outset we've seen Walt compromise his alleged principles and values based on pride, greed and cowardice. Are any of us so different?

GOD DAMMIT THIS IS A GOOD SHOW!!!!

 

[Bogey]

"Was Walter White EVER a good person?"

I would argue....

No. No he wasn't.

Walt appeared to have been a devoted/loving husband and father to a kid with cerebral palsy and a dedicated chemistry teacher for at least 16 years.

It appears he was an upstanding citizen.

What about that isn't good?

What do they call the show again?
Oh yeah, Breaking Bad.

The term 'breaking bad' is a southern colloquialism and it means when someone who has taken a turn off the path of the straight and narrow, when they've gone wrong. And that could be for that day or for a lifetime.
Breaking Bad - Breaking Bad Wiki

The creator of the show has stated that the point of the show is that "actions have consequences".

I think Walter White was a good person who...you know the rest.

 

[Bogey]

The larger question of course is... if Walter White was never a good person....

Are any of us? What is a "good person"? From the outset we've seen Walt compromise his alleged principles and values based on pride, greed and cowardice. Are any of us so different?

GOD DAMMIT THIS IS A GOOD SHOW!!!!

All of us have the potential to do bad or good.
No matter how good you might be for an X amount of time, you could go off the deep end if you choose to.
Walt decided to go off the deep end.

After he went that route, he had outs.
He could have straightened up and flown right, even after the time Hank discovered he was Heisenberg. (I have a little problem with the show over this. Why wouldn't Walt disappear himself and his family (the vacuum cleaner guy) after Hank made that discovery? What did he say to Uncle Jack? "You can be whatever you want".)
He continuted to choose to do bad (made the confession recording saying that Hank was Heisenberg).

What is a good person?
It's all relative, isn't it?

 

[jerseydevil]

See, that's the thing. Yes, Walt is guilty of many sins, pride foremost among them. But if he had been truly bad from the start of this show there is no possible way this show would be as successful. I worry that people will forget that regardless how poorly motivated, Walt started out as a desperate man who just wanted to do(what he thought) was the right thing. Was cooking meth something that a normal person would have chose? Well, once again...desperate. And imagine the anger at being diagnosed w/cancer never having been a smoker. Chemistry was what he did. And the clock was ticking. Over the course of time his character flaws slowly asserted themselves...so it really is like they say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Maybe that is the argument eternal over this show. Was Walt ever truly good, or did circumstances just reveal the person that was hiding until opportunity presented itself. I get it Doc. And yeah, maybe I am wrong for wanting Walt to retain some semblance of a good person. The things he has done have been inexcusable and cannot be erased by anything that he does, but I still want to see that circumstances can still reveal the person that Walt once was and could have been, Sorry, I guess despite all my cynicism I am an optimist at heart.

 

[jerseydevil]

BREAKING BAD Director Rian Johnson Talks “Ozymandias”, Plus Behind-the-Scenes Images | Collider

 

[santiclaws]

See, that's the thing. Yes, Walt is guilty of many sins, pride foremost among them. But if he had been truly bad from the start of this show there is no possible way this show would be as successful. I worry that people will forget that regardless how poorly motivated, Walt started out as a desperate man who just wanted to do(what he thought) was the right thing. Was cooking meth something that a normal person would have chose? Well, once again...desperate. And imagine the anger at being diagnosed w/cancer never having been a smoker. Chemistry was what he did. And the clock was ticking. Over the course of time his character flaws slowly asserted themselves...so it really is like they say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Maybe that is the argument eternal over this show. Was Walt ever truly good, or did circumstances just reveal the person that was hiding until opportunity presented itself. I get it Doc. And yeah, maybe I am wrong for wanting Walt to retain some semblance of a good person. The things he has done have been inexcusable and cannot be erased by anything that he does, but I still want to see that circumstances can still reveal the person that Walt once was and could have been, Sorry, I guess despite all my cynicism I am an optimist at heart.

Well, this is what makes the show as good as it is. Three-dimensional characters. If Walt never got cancer, or if he had a sizable life insurance policy, a teacher and a devoted father and husband would probably be the only persona he ever would have had. Someone brought up Hitler and it is a good parallel - many of the people who became Nazis and did the most horrible things imaginable were ordinary people before the war, who had ordinary jobs and families. Just like Walt, if not for the circumstances which allowed their darkness to take over, they would have continued down the same path.

In this scenario, even though he has "turned to the darkside," Walt is still not evil through and through. He was still trying to save Hank despite the fact that Hank was the person who destroyed him. He still loves his daughter and his son and wants them to have some semblance of a normal life. I think he still loves Skyler, too. He had genuine affection for Jesse not so long ago.

That Big Gun is obviously meant for the Nazis. Why is he coming after them - just for his barrels of money? Maybe so, but I would not be surprised if Walt attempts to save Jesse if only to be consistent with his image of himself as a good guy. He's lost everything that ever meant anything to him, perhaps this would be his last attempt to give meaning to his life - by affecting someone's life in a positive way. It probably would not be successful, but I would not be surprised by an attempt at a rescue.

 

[jerseydevil]

The only thing that has made me question the Walt saves Jesse angle is the clear passage of time as evidenced by Walt's full head of hair. I don't see Todd keeping Jesse in servitude past the point where he learns what he needs to learn to handle the cook. I think it may be straight up angel of vengeance stuff that prompted Walt to buy the killeveryoneintheroom gun.

 

[santiclaws]

The only thing that has made me question the Walt saves Jesse angle is the clear passage of time as evidenced by Walt's full head of hair. I don't see Todd keeping Jesse in servitude past the point where he learns what he needs to learn to handle the cook. I think it may be straight up angel of vengeance stuff that prompted Walt to buy the killeveryoneintheroom gun.

Bah, I forgot about the hair. So much for my theory.

 

[NastiMarvasti]

See, that's the thing. Yes, Walt is guilty of many sins, pride foremost among them. But if he had been truly bad from the start of this show there is no possible way this show would be as successful. I worry that people will forget that regardless how poorly motivated, Walt started out as a desperate man who just wanted to do(what he thought) was the right thing. Was cooking meth something that a normal person would have chose? Well, once again...desperate. And imagine the anger at being diagnosed w/cancer never having been a smoker. Chemistry was what he did. And the clock was ticking. Over the course of time his character flaws slowly asserted themselves...so it really is like they say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Maybe that is the argument eternal over this show. Was Walt ever truly good, or did circumstances just reveal the person that was hiding until opportunity presented itself. I get it Doc. And yeah, maybe I am wrong for wanting Walt to retain some semblance of a good person. The things he has done have been inexcusable and cannot be erased by anything that he does, but I still want to see that circumstances can still reveal the person that Walt once was and could have been, Sorry, I guess despite all my cynicism I am an optimist at heart.

Is anyone really all bad though? Even Hitler probably had some good qualities. Most people though would consider him a bad person. Pure evil is for cartoons. And I'd argue that this wasn't a desperate enough situation to do the things he's done. His family's lives weren't in danger when he started this. He just wanted them to live comfortably. That's fine but is it worth killing people over and ruining countless lives? All the while knowing that Hank would have taken care of the family. This was all about Walt's pride.

Funny enough, this is reminding me of the theme of The Killing Joke where the Joker tries to prove that anyone can have a bad day.

 

[NastiMarvasti]

Well, this is what makes the show as good as it is. Three-dimensional characters. If Walt never got cancer, or if he had a sizable life insurance policy, a teacher and a devoted father and husband would probably be the only persona he ever would have had. Someone brought up Hitler and it is a good parallel - many of the people who became Nazis and did the most horrible things imaginable were ordinary people before the war, who had ordinary jobs and families. Just like Walt, if not for the circumstances which allowed their darkness to take over, they would have continued down the same path.

In this scenario, even though he has "turned to the darkside," Walt is still not evil through and through. He was still trying to save Hank despite the fact that Hank was the person who destroyed him. He still loves his daughter and his son and wants them to have some semblance of a normal life. I think he still loves Skyler, too. He had genuine affection for Jesse not so long ago.

That Big Gun is obviously meant for the Nazis. Why is he coming after them - just for his barrels of money? Maybe so, but I would not be surprised if Walt attempts to save Jesse if only to be consistent with his image of himself as a good guy. He's lost everything that ever meant anything to him, perhaps this would be his last attempt to give meaning to his life - by affecting someone's life in a positive way. It probably would not be successful, but I would not be surprised by an attempt at a rescue.

If Walt comes back to save Jesse and succeeds, Jesse would probably still kill Walt.

 

[Dr. Naysay]

What is a good person?
It's all relative, isn't it?

That's my point.

We're presented with the idea that this otherwise perfectly decent human being becomes a monster based on the choices he makes when faced with a desperate situation (the cancer doncha know).

But so early one we're given a glimpse into what kind of man Walter White is. He refuses money that could save his life and a job opportunity that would elevate him and his family out of middle class humdrummery.

And he angrily refuses it.

Why?

Pride. Pride mixed with deceit, cowardice, avarice, resentment and a desire to control the people he claims to love and respect most in the world.

Walter White does everything for his family? What kind of man would do the things he's done for his family if he truly loved them when the Gray Matter option is on the table?

No.

Walter White lived a decent life but he was not a decent man.

 

[NastiMarvasti]

The only thing that has made me question the Walt saves Jesse angle is the clear passage of time as evidenced by Walt's full head of hair. I don't see Todd keeping Jesse in servitude past the point where he learns what he needs to learn to handle the cook. I think it may be straight up angel of vengeance stuff that prompted Walt to buy the killeveryoneintheroom gun.

I think it's a year later because in the diner he wrote "52" with his bacon.

 

[Dr. Naysay]

Funny enough, this is reminding me of the theme of The Killing Joke where the Joker tries to prove that anyone can have a bad day.

I was thinking about that and the Book of Job!

 

[NastiMarvasti]

That's my point.

We're presented with the idea that this otherwise perfectly decent human being becomes a monster based on the choices he makes when faced with a desperate situation (the cancer doncha know).

But so early one we're given a glimpse into what kind of man Walter White is. He refuses money that could save his life and a job opportunity that would elevate him and his family out of middle class humdrummery.

And he angrily refuses it.

Why?

Pride. Pride mixed with deceit, cowardice, avarice, resentment and a desire to control the people he claims to love and respect most in the world.

Walter White does everything for his family? What kind of man would do the things he's done for his family if he truly loved them when the Gray Matter option is on the table?

No.

Walter White lived a decent life but he was not a decent man.

Gray Matter and the knowledge that Hank would have taken care of them. Plus knowing that Skyler could have worked for Ted after he was gone. Walt is a prideful control freak.