All Things:AMC television

jerseydevil said:
Well, lets agree to disagree.
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Nope.

The argument is predicated on the notion that nothing unbelievable or fortuitously coincidental ever happens on Breaking Bad.

EVERYTHING ABOUT BREAKING BAD IS UNBELIEVABLE AND FORTUITOUSLY COINCIDENTAL.

It's no more unbelievable that Walt is able to move about Albuquerque unnoticed than it is that Hank figured out Walt's evil alterego by taking a **** in the master bedroom and reading the inscription on a book of poetry.

Or that Mike Erhmantrout and Gus Fring didn't have Jesse Pinkman killed on multiple occasions. Or that Walt didn't exclude Jesse from the "empire" on others.

Or that Hank and Steve got into a shootout with a half dozen nazis and only two of a few hundred bullets actually hit someone.

No.

No this is a stupid theory.
 
Why is it SOOOOOO important that I agree with you. It isn't a flawless theory, but it has enough merit that it is entirely fascinating. In all the post game analysis it, IN MY OPINION, is one of the most entertaining theories I have read. Did it supplant my opinion that what happened actually happened? No. But it makes me think. And there really can't be anything wrong with that. Let me keep my tinfoil hat warm...whats it to you?
 
I had my first case of Breaking Bad withdrawl last night at 6pm (I always received the East Coast feed via DirecTv)... realization has sunk in that it is gone for good.

Well, unless Santa brings me the complete series "Barrel Set" so I can watch all the new additional content :pray:
 
doctordestructo said:
I had my first case of Breaking Bad withdrawl last night at 6pm (I always received the East Coast feed via DirecTv)... realization has sunk in that it is gone for good.

Well, unless Santa brings me the complete series "Barrel Set" so I can watch all the new additional content :pray:
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I don't even own a blu ray player yet and I'm buying that "Barrel Set".
 
Bogey said:
Walt dreamt of Jesse day-dreaming about building that box?

Theory killed.
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Like I have stated it isn't faultless. Yet it does raise interesting questions. That was why I liked it. It encourages discussion as opposed to the very closed ended reality of things. What, all of a sudden nobody wants to discuss hairbrained conspiracy theories?
 
jerseydevil said:
Like I have stated it isn't faultless. Yet it does raise interesting questions. That was why I liked it. It encourages discussion as opposed to the very closed ended reality of things. What, all of a sudden nobody wants to discuss hairbrained conspiracy theories?
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Am I allowed to respond to this?
 
Of course...but you are already on record as 'wholesale dismissal' and I am not even trying to convince anyone of the validity of it. It's not an argument pro or con, I just think it may be a loophole that may have been intentional(probably not) that allows an 'ELSEWORDS' style alternative viewpoint. I appeciate someone being clever enough to postualte the theory.
 
jerseydevil said:
Of course...but you are already on record as 'wholesale dismissal' and I am not even trying to convince anyone of the validity of it. It's not an argument pro or con, I just think it may be a loophole that may have been intentional(probably not) that allows an 'ELSEWORDS' style alternative viewpoint. I appeciate someone being clever enough to postualte the theory.
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So I'll just ask this then...

what "interesting questions" does it raise?

EDIT : Also is it "clever" or a "theory" to just say "Hey you know that one cliche that everybody always jokes about with everything always? That."?
 
Dr. Naysay said:
So I'll just ask this then...

what "interesting questions" does it raise?

EDIT : Also is it "clever" or a "theory" to just say "Hey you know that one cliche that everybody always jokes about with everything always? That."?
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Sorry, maybe I am exhausted but I do not get that last point.
And look, there really is no discussion if you wholsesale dismiss The theory. I don't believe in it enough to argue the finer points with someone who is closed to the idea. I have discussed it with more open minded folks and while the end result usually is that the theory is mostly invalid there are some good talking points. For me, the biggest part of that theory is the framing of the reveal of Walt during his moment of closure with Skyler. The whole time on the phone w/Marie there is no indication, then the slow revolution of the shot. And Walt coming clean. Just the general tone of things, the use of past tense(I WAS ALIVE)...I want to believe Gilligan was clever enough to write in a backdoor. And the point about the car being too old for a remote trunk. Yes Yes...Walt could have rigged it. I am sure even with all the heat on him he could just stroll into a radio shack and buy all he needed. Sure. Oh yeah, and the reserves of strength he had as a late stage cancer patient. And positioning the car...just so...with NO complaint from the nazis. Like I said, it's rather clever and I admire the puzzle solving that bordered on nitpicking. I liked the finale. Liked. But it was a little too plainly stated for me. That's why I like the outlaw theory. Call me a contrarian Doc.
 
jerseydevil said:
Sorry, maybe I am exhausted but I do not get that last point.
And look, there really is no discussion if you wholsesale dismiss The theory. I don't believe in it enough to argue the finer points with someone who is closed to the idea. I have discussed it with more open minded folks and while the end result usually is that the theory is mostly invalid there are some good talking points. For me, the biggest part of that theory is the framing of the reveal of Walt during his moment of closure with Skyler. The whole time on the phone w/Marie there is no indication, then the slow revolution of the shot. And Walt coming clean. Just the general tone of things, the use of past tense(I WAS ALIVE)...I want to believe Gilligan was clever enough to write in a backdoor. And the point about the car being too old for a remote trunk. Yes Yes...Walt could have rigged it. I am sure even with all the heat on him he could just stroll into a radio shack and buy all he needed. Sure. Oh yeah, and the reserves of strength he had as a late stage cancer patient. And positioning the car...just so...with NO complaint from the nazis. Like I said, it's rather clever and I admire the puzzle solving that bordered on nitpicking. I liked the finale. Liked. But it was a little too plainly stated for me. That's why I like the outlaw theory. Call me a contrarian Doc.
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OK but all of that can be summed up into one "question" which was "why was the show so tidily unrealistic?" and as I addressed in my initial rant.... the entire show has been tidily unrealistic. Because it's a character study more than a docudrama.

So what "questions" would a dream sequence finale really ask from a "character study" perspective?

What does Walt secretly wish would happen? He's got a pretty limited imagination if that's the case.

I guess it just annoys me because part of what has made Breaking Bad so fascinating for me is the moral issues it forces the audience to experience and the "ZOMG wat if it was jsut a dream?!" is just a complete and total bail out on continuing to ask more interesting questions.

Was it a happy ending just because Walt was smiling when he died? Jesse lived, does that mean Walt saved him? Is self awareness the same thing as happiness? Can evil people regret the evil deeds they've done but come to peace with who they are?

THESE are interesting questions to me.
 
Dr. Naysay said:
OK but all of that can be summed up into one "question" which was "why was the show so tidily unrealistic?" and as I addressed in my initial rant.... the entire show has been tidily unrealistic. Because it's a character study more than a docudrama.

So what "questions" would a dream sequence finale really ask from a "character study" perspective?

What does Walt secretly wish would happen? He's got a pretty limited imagination if that's the case.

I guess it just annoys me because part of what has made Breaking Bad so fascinating for me is the moral issues it forces the audience to experience and the "ZOMG wat if it was jsut a dream?!" is just a complete and total bail out on continuing to ask more interesting questions.

Was it a happy ending just because Walt was smiling when he died? Jesse lived, does that mean Walt saved him? Is self awareness the same thing as happiness? Can evil people regret the evil deeds they've done but come to peace with who they are?

THESE are interesting questions to me.
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None of those are bad talking points Doc. You want to talk about the show philosophically? I have no problem with that. Why does one have to exist at the expense of the other is all I am saying. I like the nuts and bolts aspect of things. The writing and either exposed flaws or exposed genius(if the back door dream theory exists because of the deft writing of Gilligan and co...that is genius). It doesn't exclude me from looking at the big picture vis a vis the concept of unrepentant evil vs redemption. I discount nothing and I will look at the show in whatever way you want to dissect. If I disagree with you, unless it's blatantly obvious, I won't turn away any opinion.
 
jerseydevil said:
None of those are bad talking points Doc. You want to talk about the show philosophically? I have no problem with that. Why does one have to exist at the expense of the other is all I am saying. I like the nuts and bolts aspect of things. The writing and either exposed flaws or exposed genius(if the back door dream theory exists because of the deft writing of Gilligan and co...that is genius). It doesn't exclude me from looking at the big picture vis a vis the concept of unrepentant evil vs redemption. I discount nothing and I will look at the show in whatever way you want to dissect. If I disagree with you, unless it's blatantly obvious, I won't turn away any opinion.
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They can't co-exist because here's how the conversation about "Is it a dream or not" goes down....

You - What if it was all a dream?
Me - wait... why?
You - Because (fill in reasons why here)
Me - OH COOL YOU'RE RIGHT!

FIN

That's it. That's the conversation.

That's not interesting and dream sequences have been so famously and historically used and over used in television that it's HARDLY genius to suggest that it's been done again and it would be completely hack for Gilligan and co. to have done it again. Not to mention completely out of character for the entire show.

AND it doesn't make any sense.

No.

I reject it totally.
 
Why you gotta be so singular about stuff? I just do not understand the need to argue something out of existence because there can be only one. Maybe I am a fence sitter but I can see the validity of both. And I leave my mind open to be swayed one way or the other. I guess we are just VERY different Doc.
 
So, last episode of Hell on Wheels, anyone? **SPOILERS**

Just watched it yesterday and... WTF?? Bohanon is kept alive by the Mormon dude that wanted him dead so badly he kidnapped him but agreed to have him marry his daughter instead? And the Swede keeps him alive for what purpose, exactly? What is the Swede thinking? "Let's see, my mortal enemy's fate is in my hands. He knows my true identity and desperately wants to kill me. One word from me, and he's a dead man. I know - to really make him suffer, I'll have him married off to the hot 18-year-old and live with him side-by-side so he has the opportunity to unmask me and/or kill me!" Cue evil laugh.

"Cake.. or Death?!" "I'll take the cake, please."
 
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