Are the Kings too loyal?

[Rogie-Vachon]

Remember when Mike Richards got caught? Dean Lombardi could have bought him out - even after helping win 2 Cups…Dean had a meeting with Mike & kept him. Dean admitted to season ticket holders that he really didn’t understand drug abuse.
Well, that act of loyalty flamed out.

What about signing guys like Brown, Kopitar & Doughty to long contracts?
Kopi will be 37. Drew turns 35.
Bring back Trevor Lewis? Sure, character guy. Knows his role…but…38 in January.

So, when does loyalty stop & reality that players start to lose their skills in their mid 30s begin?

The Angels stupidly signed a 31 year old star to a 10 year contract. After zero playoff wins - the team cut Pujols. Why don’t organizations learn?

Hockey / baseball / football / basketball

I think part of the Kings cap mess is b/c of 11 and 8….but Whatta I know?

Loyalty is one thing - being realistic is another.

 

[DryKing]

Remember when Mike Richards got caught? Dean Lombardi could have bought him out - even after helping win 2 Cups…Dean had a meeting with Mike & kept him. Dean admitted to season ticket holders that he really didn’t understand drug abuse.
Well, that act of loyalty flamed out.

What about signing guys like Brown, Kopitar & Doughty to long contracts?
Kopi will be 37. Drew turns 35.
Bring back Trevor Lewis? Sure, character guy. Knows his role…but…38 in January.

So, when does loyalty stop & reality that players start to lose their skills in their mid 30s begin?

The Angels stupidly signed a 31 year old star to a 10 year contract. After zero playoff wins - the team cut Pujols. Why don’t organizations learn?

Hockey / baseball / football / basketball

I think part of the Kings cap mess is b/c of 11 and 8….but Whatta I know?

Loyalty is one thing - being realistic is another.

To be fair, Brown signed at a home town discount so the loyalty was on his side, not the team's. Furthermore, they said thank you by stripping his Captaincy and, later, leaving him exposed during the Seattle expansion draft.

But hey the Kings were super loyal to Quick...as is not at all. It's one thing to trade a player, but a whole different thing to blindside your franchises best goalie ever in the process.

Under Blake I haven't seen a problem with the Kings when it comes to loyalty. What I have seen are bad contract negotiations which have resulted in overpaying certain players on the team (in terms of both AAV and number of years). It's not loyalty, it's just bad negotiating and the inability to get players to take home town discounts. Kopi signed a fair contract, just not a discounted one. Doughty's contract was rediculous from the start - but let's be honest, had he signed for less Blake would have found a way to use the money to overpay another player instead (which may be why we don't see Kings players taking home team discounts).

Dean could definitely be considered too loyal but that is likely also why he was able to construct the team he did and win a couple Cups.

 

[Helvetica]

i think hockey is a little different than baseball in that you can play guys to lesser roles more easily. Brown started his career as a top 6 winger. By the end he was a bottom 6 winger. And yes, you could see the decline, and you could argue they hung on a season too long, but he was still providing intangibles and something as a bottom 6 guy. Lewis too, is also not being signed for anything other than a 4th line/healthy scratch option. He'll see limited 5v5 min. Provide some veteran presence in the locker room. And can be trusted to make the right plays out there. More importantly though, he provides a benchmark whereby young guys know they need to do at least as well as he is to hold down a spot. So, there might be a different vet player better suited for that benchmark and leadership role, but Lewis at 800k, isnt a bad option. If you find that he does wind up hampering you with a roster spot you want to give somebody else, you waive him.

Kopi is still playing at a level to warrant his contract. Doughty, while being overpaid, still plays at a top line level. So, maaaybe you're overpaying those two a bit, but it's not like the arent performing close to their pay grade.

The issue here, is that it's possible Blake mistimed the window within which this team might truly compete. We also had some bad decisions on who to bring in. PLD was an obvious fiasco. Cal was also problematic. So, to me, there's maybe a little extra money you'd love to have from doughty's contract.. maybe Kopi's too, but those guys are performing within reason. The bigger problem, is that the guy you went hard for to solidify your top 6 completely flopped. And the goalie you were hoping to own the net is gone.

 

[Pevsfreedom]

Yeah unless your name is Jonathan Quick which I will be mad about forever.

 

[Moog]

Perhaps this was the case (to a degree) with Deano.

That whole deal with Richards just screams of an uninformed/uneducated GM that had no idea he was staring face to face with an addict, and that said addicts behaviors over years were SCREAMING "I am an addict". Not to mention Deano knew Richards background (see "dry island") when he traded for him.

Then again Deano thought it was cool, and not a big deal to have a guy who made his wife's face and TV into one object continue to practice with the team. Deano didn't think domestic abuse was that big of a deal.

I think Deano was from the old school (bro, toxic) hockey culture.
This lead to some real poor decision making in the end.


Meanwhile, Blake and the current front office is just a den of nepotism, and underqualified people in positions of power, who will gladly keep AEG happy (see bottom line), while they continue to make bad decisions as their decade of mediocrity continues.

 

[Pevsfreedom]

fun fact is I learned the word nepotism from this board

 

[orpheus]

Yeah, too loyal to Blake.

 

[xcheck]

Was the original post posted on Bobby Bonilla Day?

 

[Birdman]

This runs rampant throughout the organization and with the exception of the Lombardi years when, they brought in outsiders to run Hockey Ops, is completely ingrained in our culture from Upper Management down through the players.

 

[LAKingSteve]

Kopi and Drew, probably too high of an AAV and term given how things have played out and some would consider them bad deals at the time. That being said, they weren't going to let either of them walk and they both continue to play relatively well.

No issues with the Lewis deal really. He will be more of a character guy/mentor for the kids, probably won't play enough to make a positive or negative impact. I guess they could have just not signed him but all teams need a character guy like him in the locker room, one more vet presence.

I think if they would have held on to Quick, you could probably make the argument that they were too loyal...though many might say the Kings weren't loyal enough and should have never traded him.

To me, the bigger issue is just poor team management by the GM outside of those deals you might consider "too loyal". During the cup run, the team made all the right moves. Since then, not a ton of good moves to make the team better and some very bad moves, potentially even one during this most recent free agent window. I really don't see any way Blake is around after his contract ends, if he even makes it through this season.

 

[Jerram]

Kopi last 2 years 70 and 74 pts, the 2 years they won the cup 70 and 76 pts...
Drew top 10 goals and top 20 points for defenseman...
Sure it would be nice if Drew's cap hit was a little lower but no the kings problem isn't those 2.
The original sin is betting the ranch on Cal and him sh*tting the bed, followed by the huge contract to PLD.

 

[Earl]

I get being loyal but if the Kings were Tampa who's won just as many Cups as we have Doughty is probably playing in Toronto or is playing at $8,000,000 not $11,000,000. It's a cold business and long term having Doughty make that kind of money hamstrings the team pretty bad given his current production which isn't bad but I would say being just an idiot fan he's probably overpaid by $1,500,000'sh.

 

[Madness20721]

To be fair, Brown signed at a home town discount so the loyalty was on his side, not the team's. Furthermore, they said thank you by stripping his Captaincy and, later, leaving him exposed during the Seattle expansion draft.

IMO there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to take the C from Brownie. It was a slap in his face. I hated that decision and lost almost all respect I had at that point for the team's management. Who knows...it may have been a decision the players made together.

 

[K-Man #32]

The Slava V situation

 

[K-Man #32]

Was the original post posted on Bobby Bonilla Day?

You mean Canada day lol

 

[DoubleMinor]

Remember when Mike Richards got caught? Dean Lombardi could have bought him out - even after helping win 2 Cups…Dean had a meeting with Mike & kept him. Dean admitted to season ticket holders that he really didn’t understand drug abuse.
Well, that act of loyalty flamed out.

What about signing guys like Brown, Kopitar & Doughty to long contracts?
Kopi will be 37. Drew turns 35.
Bring back Trevor Lewis? Sure, character guy. Knows his role…but…38 in January.

So, when does loyalty stop & reality that players start to lose their skills in their mid 30s begin?

The Angels stupidly signed a 31 year old star to a 10 year contract. After zero playoff wins - the team cut Pujols. Why don’t organizations learn?

Hockey / baseball / football / basketball

I think part of the Kings cap mess is b/c of 11 and 8….but Whatta I know?

Loyalty is one thing - being realistic is another.

I don’t really have an argument on either side here.
What I do believe is that I can’t really find fault with someone being too loyal. I think it’s a highly undervalued trait.

Mostly the loyalty argument applies to Lombardi
After 2012/2014, and after seeing what that team went through to win two Cups, Lombardi chose to reward some players. I respect that.

Obviously there were decisions that did not appear loyal, Williams and Quick in particular.
However, I don’t think any of us know enough details about these decisions.
Was Williams ignored once his contract expired or were there discussions that did not go anywhere?
What discussions took place between Blake and Quick before the trade? Again, we do not know.
Did Blake offer an extension that was minimal while Quick asked for a deal that reflected his career?

One thing about the criticisms is that we just don’t know the context, we don’t know the backstory.

But again, I find it hard to be against loyalty. In fact, I think I we could use more of it.

(I’m speaking in general terms. I understand how it impacts a team roster.).

 

[Clif]

I don’t really have an argument on either side here.
What I do believe is that I can’t really find fault with someone being too loyal. I think it’s a highly undervalued trait.

Mostly the loyalty argument applies to Lombardi
After 2012/2014, and after seeing what that team went through to win two Cups, Lombardi chose to reward some players. I respect that.

Obviously there were decisions that did not appear loyal, Williams and Quick in particular.
However, I don’t think any of us know enough details about these decisions.
Was Williams ignored once his contract expired or were there discussions that did not go anywhere?
What discussions took place between Blake and Quick before the trade? Again, we do not know.
Did Blake offer an extension that was minimal while Quick asked for a deal that reflected his career?

One thing about the criticisms is that we just don’t know the context, we don’t know the backstory.

But again, I find it hard to be against loyalty. In fact, I think I we could use more of it.

(I’m speaking in general terms. I understand how it impacts a team roster.).

This season Quick said his plan was going to be to play one more season in LA (this last one) and then retire. Leaving LA has extended his career.

He should be a HoF first ballot IMO, and his time in NY has given him renewed media attention. It’s been a pleasure to watch him receive so many accolades he deserves and to become the winningest American goalie. Maybe he’d have gotten those wins here last year, but maybe not. Can never be sure.

So I’m happy for him, but I will always hate that trade. I think Blake was moving on since Quick wasn’t retiring. Definitely wasn’t loyal to him and I don’t see any evidence of any loyalty in this org other than Luc to his buddies.

 

[Pevsfreedom]

IMO there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to take the C from Brownie. It was a slap in his face. I hated that decision and lost almost all respect I had at that point for the team's management. Who knows...it may have been a decision the players made together.

I stopped actively watching (I followed still) from then until TMac was hired (I didn't miss much).

 

[DoubleMinor]

This season Quick said his plan was going to be to play one more season in LA (this last one) and then retire. Leaving LA has extended his career.

He should be a HoF first ballot IMO, and his time in NY has given him renewed media attention. It’s been a pleasure to watch him receive so many accolades he deserves and to become the winningest American goalie. Maybe he’d have gotten those wins here last year, but maybe not. Can never be sure.

So I’m happy for him, but I will always hate that trade. I think Blake was moving on since Quick wasn’t retiring. Definitely wasn’t loyal to him and I don’t see any evidence of any loyalty in this org other than Luc to his buddies.

I think you got on the right track with Quick. If Quick wanted one more year then I suspect the issue was for how much. Kings may have thought 1-2M, while Quick may have wanted 3-4M. That’s the rub. And none of us know.

I think we all wanted and expected Quick to retire here. None of us thought he would get traded. But based on Quicks performance I can’t imagine anyone thought a one-year deal above 2M was appropriate. He was coming off a 5.7M contract if memory serves. I think that gap was the issue.